Shame (Steve McQueen, 2011)

[mfunk9786]

I was just going by your location. If you are in San Diego, you should find out quick what that is and thank me later.

[knives]

I never got to restaurants and to be honest the silliness of that web page will likely keep me away.

[mfunk9786]

Stone is [arguably] the best brewery in the United States

[knives]

Not a enough of a connoisseur to care I'm afraid.

[wattsup32]

I'm very late to the party, but that's usually the case. I just saw this yesterday.

The endless stream of long (very long) takes was refreshing. I especially like that these long takes include the banality in life because I generally find these moments missing in film. Whereas in life, it's these moments that can affect me the most. I'm thinking specifically of:

Spoiler

The scene where he is attempting to take the elevator up to his apartment suspecting something terrible has happened with Sissy.

These type of moments in life are the ones that really get to me for some reason.

Also, the opening and ending interactions were pitch perfect. The woman on the subway was fantastic. The woman in the bar was fantastic. Really, all of the performances were terrific except for, arguably, Fassbender's boss.

On the other hand, it seemed as though most of the times two people actually spoke to one another it was the first time either of them had ever interacted with another human being in their lives. That quickly grew tedious and bothersome.

I'd be interested to get other people's perspectives here because I'm not sure what it is I'm supposed to care about or why in this movie. I can't say I have any reason to revisit it. I left saying to myself, "Very well done. So what?" Maybe someone here picked up something I missed.

[Matt]

Terribly disappointing film. The story is a very conventional indie drama plot (exchanging sex addiction for drug or alcohol addiction or some other anti-social behavior) that I feel like I've seen dozens of times, but McQueen strips so much away from it that all he's left with is a string of emotional beats for the actors to hit. There are no characters, there are only actors emoting. They're doing it extremely well, but so what? Their performances are grounded in so little context that there's no arc to their performances, only scenes that bump up against each other and don't add up to anything: the scene where Brandon gets wistful, the scene where Brandon gets irritated, the scene where Brandon goes on an awkward date, the scene where Brandon gets desperate, and then of course the ending that you see coming from miles away. So the film winds up existing in some weird kind of no man's land between a solid, conventional indie sibling drama like You Can Count on Me and the sparse structuralism of Morvern Callar, too timid to commit to either approach.

Fassbender is excellent in everything he does, but I hope he finds a better regular collaborator than McQueen, who appears to have nothing to say.

[Finch]

Reverse Shot have Shame at the top of their worst films of 2011:

Shame is just another film about the horrid dangers of too much rutting capped with the obligatory tear-stained climax (in both senses). This one is made all the more offensive in that its hero, at the height of his loneliness and degradation, lowers himself to receive a blow-job from a man. It’s obnoxious that McQueen clearly thinks he can get away with passing off such tomfoolery as profound; that he’s gone further and weighed the already heavy film down with the most self-serious molasses-thick score in recent memory (even a habitual button-pusher like John Williams would cringe), is arrogance of the highest order.

[Tom Hagen]

Thanks for spoiler tagging.

[Matt]

What needs a spoiler tag? The blow job?

[zedz]

What? There's a blow-job in a film about a sex addict!? I never would have seen that coming.

[mfunk9786]

Was the movie really implying that the blowjob from a man was rock bottom, though? I didn't see it through that lens at all, it was just part of what must not be the first or last night of binge sexuality in Fassbender's character's life.

[Tom Hagen]

Well the post did make it seem like a crucial last act revelation. And if it were so rote, why complain about it so forcefully?

Edit: never mind, I get it. The writer thinks McQueen is saying that the straight guy going gay is the depths of degradation and he's offended by that. Not a spoiler or a revelation. Carry on.

[Matt]

It's part of a binge of self-degradation, but yeah, it's pretty obvious he's done it before and it's not that big a deal. I think the way it's telegraphed in the film is more of a problem than the actual act is for the character.

[hearthesilence]

I had one friend who interpreted it the same way - "So we're supposed to be horrified that he's going to a GAY club?" When I saw it, I didn't think the same thing, but it does feel mishandled now. The self-degradation of a sexual act with a (presumably) random stranger is most likely the intention, but if memory serves, it's the only incident of male homosexuality in the film, which really muddles things.

I actually liked the film, but the last quarter, when he goes on a sexual binge (including this scene), was a major letdown.

[hearthesilence]

Shame and snickering by Glenn Kenny

[Matt]

If anyone has a "thing" for a certain scrawny Irishman, you're welcome.

[domino harvey]

Going to wait til I'm at work to open those links

[Matt]

Strictly PG glam shots. Though I suddenly realize what a disappointment that might be in this particular thread.

[jwd5275]

Steve McQueen interview.

[thirtyframesasecond]

I liked this, and I didn't even like Hunger all that much, so I was quite surprised. I think what's interesting most of all about the film is the relationship between Brandon and Sissy - or lack of it. There's no backstory or explanations. We know Brandon has emotional intimacy issues, whilst Sissy obvious has previous problems of some kind. There are moments which those who've seen the film will know where the relationship becomes slightly weird. Presumably something has happened that has made Brandon how he is and how the relationship with Sissy throws his previous sense of control into complete disarray. I assume the scene that some have had issues with in this thread is just an effect of his lack of control on things. Anyway, plenty to ponder there. It's not perfect but it's thought provoking and that jogging scene looks perfectly shot.

[John Cope]

An excellent piece on the film by Mark Fisher. Looking at these images, I am struck once again by how much this reminds me of Schrader's Light Sleeper. Wish someone would put the two of those into a productive dialogue.

[Finch]

Shame gets a few mentions in Vulture's Worst of 2011.

My favourite putdown is Charles Taylor's: "A supposedly open examination of sexuality in which the only thing more depraved than gay sex is a heterosexual threesome. At last, an art movie for Santorum voters."

[rs98762001]

Yes, but Charles Taylor also calls Sucker Punch the year's "most ambitious American film...also the strongest feminist film to ever come out of Hollywood" so nothing he writes can be taken seriously.

[Quilty]

I share much of the same sentiment as mfunk9786 (that Shame flag is looking a bit heavy right now). I can't dispute the indie conventions, nor the resignation from McQueen to dramatize the suicide attempt in such trivial manner, but despite these grievances, I thoroughly enjoyed this film. It's not perfect by any means but there is an honesty about it and, as over used as this word is in regards to this film, the rawness is undeniable.

Matt, I feel your criticism is the strongest. I went in expecting McQueen to actually delve into the psychological turmoil in the context of sex addiction being a disease, instead, it was - as you said - substituting one addiction for another. I was able to then appreciate the film as a character study, which was made easy by the performances of all involved.

As for the binge towards the end:

Spoiler

I attribute it to Brandon's frenzied state after being punished by that woman's boyfriend. He so desperately needed to find retribution that he resorted to sex, the only thing he can control and find comfort in, with a man. The intense make out and the subsequent receiving of the blow job was as more about dominating than it was about his homosexuality. That club reminded me instantly of RECTUM in Roeg's Irreverisble, which is a despicable and aggressive cesspool. This scene worked well for me, the Shawshank Redemption act in the rain didn't.

The fact that McQueen left Brandon as a damaged and flawed character made me appreciate the film so much more. The somewhat ambiguous ending was very satisfying as well. I can't wait to buy this once it releases.

[John Cope]

Not sure how I feel about this.