Forthcoming Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol. 4

[Gregory]

"Why don't they occasionally release what I want".

If Criterion hasn't even occasionally released/announced anything someone wants this year, it seems like either (a) one already has most of the titles on other formats and doesn't want to go for the new Criterion edition for whatever reason, even if there are such enticements as an entire extra feature film in the case of Certified Copy for example, or (b) one has extremely narrow tastes in film.

[HerrSchreck]

I'm sorry gregory, but b) is one of the most disappointing thing I've read from you. . and youve been trending towards the defensive and contentious lately. I say this as someone who has purchased almost no crits this year.

There is a whole world of dvd labels out there to satisfy one's tastes... The narrowness is in the all-encompassing nature of your perception of the CC this year.

[SpiderBaby]

No pitchforks for me, Hollis Frampton is still next Tuesday last I checked.

The pitchforks I meant are the masses leaping to cc's defense versus Dave's honest and valid comment. Like the vengeful townsfolk of Vasaria at the ends of Uni Horror classics.

Oh, thought you meant the other way. Sorry.

[SpiderBaby]

or (b) one has extremely narrow tastes in film.

or (c) they are tired of all things American, French, and Japanese and actually want "World Cinema".

Serious question, why isn't Glauber Rocha anywhere on Criterion's radar? If we are listing the filmmakers that isn't represented, he should be at the top, if not THE missing filmmaker (since they sure love the 60's guys). It just also might have something to do with them having 0 Brazilian films at all, so just a bigger problem. I'm sure one can import the region free Rocha films from Brazil, but his 70's films is still missing from home video, and up Criterion's alley (Der Leone Have Sept Cabeças with Jean-Pierre Léaud and Claro with Juliet Berto. I'm sure they have a market for that.).

[Gregory]

I'm sorry gregory, but b) is one of the most disappointing thing I've read from you. . and youve been trending towards the defensive and contentious lately. I say this as someone who has purchased almost no crits this year.

There is a whole world of dvd labels out there to satisfy one's tastes... The narrowness is in the all-encompassing nature of your perception of the CC this year.

I don't get your meaning about any of that, really. If one can look at the entire list of what CC has released/announced so far this year and say they're not even occasionally announcing what I want*, I think it's probably either (a) or (b).
Probably more (a) than (b) among serious cinephiles, as I'll admit that CC has begun to tread very familiar ground and with a lot of their blu releases, they simply come too late compared to Region B alternatives, as David says.
What other labels are releasing isn't necessarily relevant. Other labels are doing great things, obviously, but how does that impact whether or not what CC is releasing is to one's tastes?
I'm also not being defensive just because of what my opinion is and the name of the forum I'm posting it on. Immediately saying "oh, here come the pitchforks" as soon as (or before, anticipating it!) anyone says anything positive in response to a broad, sweeping criticism Criterion could just as easily be seen as defensive, or more so.

*And "want" doesn't have to be about what one purchases. Criterion can release something I want to watch their release of without necessarily feeling a need to purchase.
Edited for mad typos

[Jeff]

I think the point is that despite having our love of cinema in common, everyone on this forum has very diverse tastes. Criterion releases an extremely broad range of titles to satisfy those tastes, but with such a large percentage of us being region-free, you may already have what you want in another version. I don't think Criterion takes releases from other regions into consideration, since we are hardly representative of their customer base as a whole. I don't think it's reasonable to expect them to only release titles unavailable anywhere else in the world or to always cater to whatever our specific interests might be. As the market has become saturated with five-inch discs over the past 15 years, that's become harder and harder to do profitably.

They certainly can't please all the people all of the time. You know that even if they announced that the next six months would be comprised entirely of rare French films of the 30s and 40s, there would be an army of other Criterion fans up in arms that they had to continue to wait for The Game, Following, and Y Tu Mama Tambien.

Pity that poor guy that just wants his damn Chico Ejiro movies.

[SpiderBaby]

Don't want to get into a forum split because of taste, but just thought this should be brought to the discussion of what they release. I would like to know if someone has made an updated pie-like chart with Criterion releases by Country. It wouldn't be considered "range" if you look at it. Asking for 1 film from entire countries isn't as narrow minded as Criterion's "business decisions" of what "the greatest films from around the WORLD" represents to them. 17 Malles, 0 Brazilian films, 0 African films, on and on. You mean to tell me rights are the reason so many filmmakers, no scratch that, entire countries are not represented? I'm sure this is a money decision first, but does anyone think it could be the tastes of Criterion to not represent those countries and focus on the American/French/Japanese films? Releasing 1 or 2 films from these Countries would go a long way for Criterion's "Mission".

[Gregory]

or (b) one has extremely narrow tastes in film.

or (c) they are tired of all things American, French, and Japanese and actually want "World Cinema".

They've also released films from the UK, Germany, the Soviet Union, Italy, and Sweden this year, if memory serves. These 8 countries are the ones Criterion focuses on, 'twas ever thus. And yeah if someone is "tired of all things" from those 8 countries, then yeah, they have very narrow tastes in film.
I agree with you that it'd be great if they took more of an interest in things like Brazilian and African cinema. That used to be my hobby horse. Then that fellow with the Verhoeven avatar ran it into the ground a bit, and now I guess it's yours if you want it, but don't be surprised if it doesn't take you anywhere.

[SpiderBaby]

or (b) one has extremely narrow tastes in film.

or (c) they are tired of all things American, French, and Japanese and actually want "World Cinema".

They've also released films from the UK, Germany, the Soviet Union, Italy, and Sweden. These are the countries that Criterion focuses on, 'twas ever thus. And yeah if someone is "tired of all things" from those 8 countries, then they have very narrow tastes in film.
I agree with you that it'd be great if they took more of an interest in things like Brazilian and African cinema. That used to be my hobby horse. Then that fellow with the Verhoeven avatar ran it into the ground a bit, and now I guess it's yours if you want it, but don't be surprised if it doesn't take you anywhere.

Understood, but I don't know how many more times one has to re-discover Tarkovsky when even those Countries are still for the most part waiting to be discovered.

Instead of an 18th Malle why not give Garrel a chance next time? Yoshida instead of Kurosawa? That could be seen as taste, but I see it as 20+ films to 0.

[Jeff]

I would like to know if someone has made an updated pie-like chart with Criterion releases by Country...

There actually was a series of such charts years ago. I think maybe Jun-Dai made them. No, Criterion's releases aren't as diverse as they could be, but they're about as diverse as anybody else's. Besides the U.S., France, and Japan, there have also been 2012 releases from Russia, Germany, Italy, the U.K., the Czech Republic, and Sweden. The usual suspects to be sure, but who else is doing a broader range? Is there some company out there I'm not aware of exploring the cinema of Ubeki-beki-beki-beki-stan-stan?

You mean to tell me rights are the reason so many filmmakers, no scratch that, entire countries are not represented?

No

I'm sure this is a money decision first...

Bingo.

[SpiderBaby]

Is there some company out there I'm not aware of exploring the cinema of Ubeki-beki-beki-beki-stan-stan?

Well Kino has some Third World countries represented. There was Fantoma (released Brazilian films) until they went. Zeitgeist Films. Milestone.

Criterion surely can if they can/did.

[HerrSchreck]

Kino releases tons of third world cinema.. Spider is right. African, Israeli, arab, east europpe, Chinese, even gulp silent, and much more. It can be done.

Greg.. Of course what other labels release plays into it. The problem with cc for me lately precisely IS that I dont *want* any of it . . .this regardless whether I go ahead and purchase our not.

This conversation is going to force me into a place i'm not thrilled to go, which is to talk publicly in front of others who love the present lineup about why the line has not been exciting me as of late. I'll get replies like schmatrix' on that other WHY DONT THEY thread (just after I bowed out of the discussion) demanding a factual accounting to back up my taste based statement. . . on a board all about taste and opinion. None is more valid than another.

Saying a persons tastes are "narrow" if they dont occasionally want something from this years lineup is absurd. How many do they need to like to not be narrow? Of all the countries and time zones of cinema, and schools within each , and unexplored canons within each, genre by genre, director by director... Then siphoning off thr more obvious titles to get to the real hidden gems... How much of this trove is in the line this year, that a person must positively have narrow tastes in film to be unexcited by it?

For me, incidentally the issue is one of depth, not.width. This is my closing remark here. Personally, I think my tastes are too wide. Less obvious titles. . . .Thats where where my tastes run, and especially my dollars. . .

[SpiderBaby]

If anything, Criterion has narrow taste in film considering the World and what they choose to represent as World Cinema. Just seems the more people's tastes I encounter the more it seems Criterion is trying to catch up instead of introducing. I just think as a business they stay status quo as "film school 101" and people's tastes just expand away from that, meanwhile new people gets introduced to these films daily. Out with the old, in with the new.

[Jeff]

Understood, but I don't know how many more times one has to re-discover Tarkovsky when even those Countries are still for the most part waiting to be discovered.

Instead of an 18th Malle why not give Garrel a chance next time? Yoshida instead of Kurosawa? That could be seen as taste, but I see it as 20+ films to 0.

The Russian film released this year wasn't a Tarkovsky, it was Mikhail Kalatozov's Letter Never Sent, which I don't think had ever been released in the U.S. before. Seems like exactly the sort of thing you're asking for. If you're wishing it would happen more often, me too. Then again, I don't foot the bill.

Well Kino has some Third World countries represented. There was Fantoma (released Brazilian films) until they went. Zeitgeist Films. Milestone.

Criterion surely can if they can/did.

I don't know about "third world" (is Brazil still considered such?) but Criterion has released films from Macedonia, Yugoslavia, Iran, The Netherlands, Mexico, Norway, China, South Korea, and India if you're looking for stuff outside the usual triumvirate of English speaking countries, Japan, and Western Europe. I wish they'd do a lot more, but you can't do it all the time or you end up like Fantoma.

[SpiderBaby]

Seems like exactly the sort of thing you're asking for. If you're wishing it would happen more often, me too. Then again, I don't foot the bill.

I guess this is exactly what I'm asking for.

[zedz]

We've all been here before (of course), and I actually think it's a healthy argument to have from time to time.

Of course, diversity of taste will mean that your mileage will vary. I was banging the 'bored with Criterion' drum last year, but have largely been delighted with the diversity of their releases for 2012. Really, the Eclipse slate alone has made this one of the most exciting years in a long time. These last two months do seem to present quite a hiccup, but I'm also prepared to give Criterion the benefit of the doubt that an unprecedented "one new title in the middle of the year" month is a hiccup. I'm guessing that some major project - a big box set, maybe - hit a snag and had to be delayed, but who knows?

[Gregory]

The problem with cc for me lately precisely IS that I dont *want* any of it . . .this regardless whether I go ahead and purchase our not.

Really? I thought I remembered you getting pretty excited about Letter Never Sent, at least.

Saying a persons tastes are "narrow" if they dont occasionally want something from this years lineup is absurd. How many do they need to like to not be narrow?

An "occasional" (in the language I was originally responding to) release from a 7-month run of announcements that include something like 50 feature films from the 30s to the present.

For me, incidentally the issue is one of depth, not.width. This is my closing remark here. Personally, I think my tastes are too wide. Less obvious titles. . . .Thats where where my tastes run, and especially my dollars. . .

Yes, length and girth are both important, er, I mean depth and breadth. What were we talking about again?

[SpiderBaby]

This is also coming from someone who thinks this year has been good for the most part (Gorin, Frampton, Czech set, Downey set, Letter Never Sent, I love Fassbinder so World on a Wire, etc). I had more of a problem with last year's releases (only buying 3 with the Vigo, People on Sunday, and The Music Room).


Maybe a WCF box would make up for those "other countries". Limite is very much needed.

[Jeff]

These last two months do seem to present quite a hiccup, but I'm also prepared to give Criterion the benefit of the doubt that an unprecedented "one new title in the middle of the year" month is a hiccup. I'm guessing that some major project - a big box set, maybe - hit a snag and had to be delayed, but who knows?

My thoughts, and guess, exactly.

I'm wondering how many people here acutally bought Letter Never Sent. Or what about stuff like Before the Rain or the Raffaello Matarazzo Eclipse set. If the answer isn't "a lot of us," it's probably not reasonable to expect them to go for deep cuts and untrod countries more frequently.

[SpiderBaby]

I'm wondering how many people here acutally bought Letter Never Sent.

For what it's worth, I pretty much only buy these releases. It's what interests me.

[zedz]

Maybe a WCF box would make up for those "other countries". Limite is very much needed.

You know, now we're all going to be thinking that THIS was the big release that dropped off the schedule for this month, and be horribly disappointed when it turns out not to be the case.

But yeah, what a way to wipe out just about every single specific complaint in one fell swoop.

[HerrSchreck]

Yes i'll jump back in for a moment to defuse some tension by laughing at my garbled language... Posting from a fucking phone right now. But look.now greg, david will jump back on i'd you keep it up with this train of lingo and youll be finished. Less obvious titles (depth) from the widest possible array ( except french new wave of course).


Re LETTER: I've had that restoration on a private PAL dvd for about 5 years now, with beautiful english subtitles. I was very happy to see it come out though.

[Jeff]

In the interest of bringing this back around to random speculation, I believe that a box of four Wim Wenders films (three of which have never had disc releases in the U.S.) was originally scheduled for June, then July. Probably got bumped at the last minute (again) leaving Le Havre all alone.

[SpiderBaby]

^ That sounds about right.

[zedz]

. . . which would have tied in nicely with the upgrade of Down by Law.