Forthcoming Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol. 4

[kekid]

We have rejoiced when Criterion got rights to important films. However, we need to re-think that paradigm in light of how they have selected material to release for many months now. If they continue with the philosophy that (1) releasing existing Criterion DVD's in Blu Ray format is a priority (executed in a seemingly random order - examples: failure to release the Blu Ray of "Wild Strawberries" in the month "Phantom Carriage" was released, and failure to release Blu Ray of Kwaidan years after it was presented for a public vote.); (2) releasing material by directors that have current limelight but questionable long-term importance (example: "Tiny Furniture"); (3) releasing films by acknowledged world cinema directors (I know there is room for debate here, but we can list out some without much dispute: Antonioni, Bergman, Bunuel, Ozu, Mizoguchi, Fassbinder, Tarkovsky, Truffaut, etc. etc. - we know they have rights to works of these directors for years, but have been very slow to do anything with them. Perfection is great if it happens in our lifetime. I am happy Kino is getting rights to many great directors and films - they have done better what Criterion used to be best at.

When I see these posts that say Criterion has access to yet another great director's works, I wonder how long those works will sit in a black hole. I write this with some sadness, because Criterion remain uncompromising in quality, and I have been an admirer for a long time. I do not understand what determines their priorities and strategies, but they have drifted away from what this one customer admired them for. If they cannot handle what they have, they should look for a partner.

[Drucker]

When I see these posts that say Criterion has access to yet another great director's works, I wonder how long those works will sit in a black hole. I write this with some sadness, because Criterion remain uncompromising in quality, and I have been an admirer for a long time. I do not understand what determines their priorities and strategies, but they have drifted away from what this one customer admired them for. If they cannot handle what they have, they should look for a partner.

My DVD/Blu Ray and CD/LP wanted lists have grown from 10 bullet points on a piece of loose-leaf paper to 100s long spreadsheets. My point is that, the list of stuff we WANT to own is always going to be longer than what we have the means to buy (unless, uh, we're millionaires?) I can't imagine it's much different for Criterion! What's the rush?

[vsski]

I can imagine them trickling out, say, half a dozen of the higher profile titles on the mainline over several years, maybe in pairs, then packaging bunches of the harder sells in Eclipse sets. "Early Fassbinder" seems like an obvious candidate for Eclipse.

Why is Eclipse an option? If I remember the "vision" for Eclipse correctly, it is to bring out movies that otherwise would not see the light of day for many years to come and that have not had a R1 release. All the Fassbinders have been released by Wellspring in R1 - and while they all could be improved upon in terms of quality, that typically is not what the Eclipse line is for.

And yes I know the Downey set had a noticeable exception to the rule above, but that's the only one I can think of.

I certainly wouldn't be interested in rebuying the Fassbinders in an Eclipse set if it doesn't improve upon the Wellsprings I already own.

[SpiderBaby]

Daisies is another example of a R1 release turned Eclipse release, and on top of that, they are touring it under the Janus banner. So I don't know what Eclipse is for anymore.

[zedz]

The 'never seen the light of day' proviso for Eclipse has been bent enough times it might as well be broken. Personally, I think the Eclipse option is a thousand time more likely than Criterion releasing twenty individual mainline Fassbinder films. And don't forget that for the vast majority of their clientele, OOP and unavailable is the same thing as unreleased.

[SpiderBaby]

But it's hard with those Fassbinder films to say which ones "deserve" mainline attention and which doesn't. I could pick 8 or 9 of those 12 as "worthy". If Black Moon got a mainline release for Malle, Effi Briest, Satan's Brew, or Fear of Fear shouldn't be a problem.

With that said, I could see like zedz suggested, an "Early Fassbinder" Eclipse to cover "Love is Colder Than Death", "Gods of the Plague", and "The American Soldier". 3 down, 9 to go (maybe 10 with Lili Marleen) the blu-ray route. They even have the new lower priced blu-rays, so release them in pairs (example Fox and his Friends with a mainline blu-ray with all the extras, along with a lower price point blu-ray of Satan's Brew).

[Jean-Luc Garbo]

I can't imagine how Criterion are going to handle all the Fassbinders they now have. In the context of other directors films the bulk of which Criterion owns rights to, I think he's a much easier sell than someone like Naruse. So they won't just trickle out a couple of Eclipse sets, a couple of mainline releases, and then throw the rest up on Hulu. But I don't think he's as easy a sell as Kurosawa (and was certainly more prolific), so I don't see mainline releases for most of these films and certainly no lavish box set.

Sure, but there's always the Louis Malle precedent. They can certainly give Fassbinder the same treatment in the mainline.

This is exactly what I think Criterion will do. I'm sure they think just putting them on DVD/BD with an essay is enough of a favor.

[bainbridgezu]

I can't imagine how Criterion are going to handle all the Fassbinders they now have. In the context of other directors films the bulk of which Criterion owns rights to, I think he's a much easier sell than someone like Naruse. So they won't just trickle out a couple of Eclipse sets, a couple of mainline releases, and then throw the rest up on Hulu. But I don't think he's as easy a sell as Kurosawa (and was certainly more prolific), so I don't see mainline releases for most of these films and certainly no lavish box set.

Sure, but there's always the Louis Malle precedent. They can certainly give Fassbinder the same treatment in the mainline.

This is exactly what I think Criterion will do. I'm sure they think just putting them on DVD/BD with an essay is enough of a favor.

I'm thinking the same thing, and certainly don't mind waiting for new editions of these films if they're getting mainline, BD releases. Wellspring's release of Petra von Kant had a commentary, documentary, and two shorts (City Tramp and Little Chaos); Merchant of Four Seasons had two documentaries and a commentary by Wim Wenders. I'd expect Criterion to retain at least the commentaries and shorts. If they do follow the Malle-model, hopefully they'll also stick largely to paired releases--that would take roughly five or six years, excluding upgrades of the four films already in the collection. Maybe not so long: as others have said, the "early films" are most likely to be bundled for Eclipse or included as supplements.

[vsski]

I still find the Eclipse option unlikely even though I admit that they have bent the rules a few times, but this would completely break them. At the same time I'm sure there are enough folks happy to buy an Eclipse set even if it doesn't have an A/V improvement over the Wellsprings (especially if they don't own these).

My bet is that they will go the Kiorastami route, where they release some of the better know titles with the early ones as supplements.

[TMDaines]

I still don't understand why people wouldn't just pick up the Arrow and AE boxes. The chances of Criterion getting around to releasing even just half of these in timely fashion and with extensive new extras is slim-to-none.

[knives]

They may have a preference to HD, the possibility of extras, and of course being region locked. Anyway even if we do count those sets I don't think the '60s shorts are available on any of them and they'll likely pop up here.

[Matt]

I've already got all of the Wellspring DVDs. I want as many Fassbinders as I can get in HD, and I don't care if they don't come with extras.

What would make me happy would be to get something akin to the Kurosawa AK 100 box set for Fassbinder but with BDs instead of DVDs. They could get it out in early 2014 and call it RWF 69 (which I'm sure he would have loved).

[TMDaines]

They may have a preference to HD, the possibility of extras, and of course being region locked. Anyway even if we do count those sets I don't think the '60s shorts are available on any of them and they'll likely pop up here.

Well there's plenty of extras on the Arrow and AE releases and with the amount of different extras on the different Fassbinder releases throughout the world you'd have to buy some films two or three times over before you'd get them all. Many of the Aussie releases have exclsuive commentaries for example. The shorts (along with several documentaries and interviews) are in one of the Arrow boxes too so you can't have looked too hard before spreading misinformation!

HD is the only real potential boon I see from any Crit releases. I can't take being region-locked for DVD seriously in 2012. It doesn't have to cost a penny more to be region-free. You can't be that interested in world and arthouse cinema if you're not bothering to look at releases outside your respective region.

[CSM126]

Region locking is entirely dependent on the whims of the licensor and the breadth of their control over the film and going free can, in fact cost more assuming its even an option. Just because you have the rights to distribute a film in one country does not mean you automatically have worldwide distribution rights.

[TMDaines]

I think you've misinterpreted my post as I was talking about people "being region-locked" and not discs. The horse has long since bolted in terms of actually trying to battle against region coding. Why bother fighting it when it's still so easy to get around?

[duck duck]

I don't see why a Fassbinder Eclipse would be out of the question because people were sure some of the Kurosawa's that went Eclipse would get a full on Criterion SE (specifically Tiger's Tail). I don't remember who or why people were saying that but I read it a lot.

[bamwc2]

I don't see why a Fassbinder Eclipse would be out of the question because people were sure some of the Kurosawa's that went Eclipse would get a full on Criterion SE (specifically Tiger's Tail). I don't remember who or why people were saying that but I read it a lot.

I'm not surprised about the one that you mentioned, but films like The Idiot or I Live in Fear certainly could have been stand alone releases.

[duck duck]

So what's next to bitch about not being released Crash or The Apu films?

[Cinephrenic]

Did you forget Rivette?

[lady wakasa]

Re region coding: I can't speak for elsewhere, but in the US the average viewer usually neither knows or cares about region coding, in part because s/he doesn't watch much beyond domestic / domestically produced films. Domestically-produced playback devices default to the US region and requires some work (a hack, etc) to watch media from elsewhere. So while there are obviously people who look for foreign films source, region coding does lock a good section of the US market out of easily choosing non-region one DVDs.

US-based folks have no regional impediment to picking up a Criterion DVD (and they are Criterion's primary market). Right or wrong, misperception or not, it's positive, not normative: you lose a significant percentage of those people once you move to, say, the AE version of the same film.

[bamwc2]

Did you forget Rivette?

Did you forget the one-two punch fanboy complaints of The Following and Y tu Mama Tambien?

[TMDaines]

Re region coding: I can't speak for elsewhere, but in the US the average viewer usually neither knows or cares about region coding, in part because s/he doesn't watch much beyond domestic / domestically produced films. Domestically-produced playback devices default to the US region and requires some work (a hack, etc) to watch media from elsewhere. So while there are obviously people who look for foreign films source, region coding does lock a good section of the US market out of easily choosing non-region one DVDs.

US-based folks have no regional impediment to picking up a Criterion DVD (and they are Criterion's primary market). Right or wrong, misperception or not, it's positive, not normative: you lose a significant percentage of those people once you move to, say, the AE version of the same film.

I was more referring to the people who inhabit forums like these. I fully agree with the fact that most people know nothing about region coding. Once you know about it, however, it's so easy to defeat (and it doesn't really have to cost anything extra over being able to play DVDs in the first place) that there's no point grumbling about it or not being region-free. Being region-free for Blu-ray can be a little more difficult for those outside the likes of the UK, US, Canada and Australia etc. but DVD is a different kettle of fish.

[colinr0380]

Did you forget Rivette?

Did you forget the one-two punch fanboy complaints of The Following and Y tu Mama Tambien?

I raise you Cocktail Molotov and Cousin, Cousine! Plus, where's that Eisenstein: The Sound Years box?(!) [-(

[AfterTheRain]

I see your selections and raise you the Qatsi trilogy, The Uninvited, and The Long Voyage Home! Plus, whatever happened to Pasolini's Trilogy of Life box set?!

[onedimension]

Joining the Criterion pile-on! Rossellini's films with Ingrid Bergman, Andrei Rublev, La Notte