636 Heaven's Gate

[CSM126]

Why am I suddenly having flashbacks to the The Prince of Tides laserdisc fiasco?

[AidanKing]

Whatever the rights and wrongs of the situation around Heaven's Gate, and I do think that the film is a near-masterpiece that was seriously underrated and unfairly held up as a scapegoat for profligate spending, probably partly for political reasons, while other equally financially disastrous films (e.g. Huston's Annie) escaped the same level of derision, it's undoubtedly true that the production history is of major interest and neither United Artists nor Cimino seem to come out particularly well.

It's a shame this can't be explored in the release with the same sympathetic approach that a similarly derided and politically radical (although, admittedly, not such high quality) work received recently with the BFI release of Revolution. However, I suppose Hugh Hudson was more willing to examine what went wrong.

[MichaelB]

Yes, Hugh Hudson was extensively involved, and I was specifically asked to cover the film's turbulent production and release history in the booklet essay.

And the BFI package also includes both cuts - it was felt that it was important to include an exact copy of what 1985 audiences would have seen, as for all that version's considerable flaws, it's nonetheless part of British film history.

[Zot!]

To be fair, the controversy is ALL that anybody remembers about this film, so I'm not completely opposed to the whitewashed presentation in an effort to allow it to stand on it's own merits. I've seen the documentary about the production battles more often than the film itself at this point (they play it on PBS). I don't know if there will ever be a time when I can successfully disassociate the two and it will probably taint any viewing I have of it.

[knives]

Which is fine, and kind of what I was hoping for too, but doesn't explain the lack of the Johnson County War doc for example. Criterion clearly were aiming for something great here and were kicked for their troubles.

[Polybius]

Some of the reviews of the day were spectacularly vicious. This one of my favourite ones...

"It fails so completely that you might suspect Mr. Cimino sold his soul to obtain the success of The Deer Hunter and the Devil has just come around to collect"
Vincent Canby, New York Times.

"Vincent Canby drinks his own bathwater." - Kris Kristofferson.

[fragnito]

I just got bought the Blu-Ray at Barnes and Noble sale yesterday and actually the booklet was a little messed up.
Because of how it was stored the right edge of the cover was bent over with a slight tear.

I didn't think Barnes and Noble could do anything about it but is there away to get a new one from Criterion?

[Emak-Bakia]

Email Mulvaney. Here's the response I've previously gotten, which I imagine they use for all such inquiries:

"Replacement packaging, including booklets, covers, and slip cases, are available for $5 each. This includes shipping and handling. Payment can be made via PayPal to [email protected]. Please include your name and address in the message field, along with the item(s) you are ordering, and as soon as we receive payment, we'll ship them out to you!"

[jindianajonz]

Since yours is damaged, you may be able to get a free replacement. I got free replacements for a copy of The Killers that had an Ikiru insert (though the insert also convinced me to buy the latter movie as well!) and a copy of Secret Sunshine that was missing it's insert. I also (rightfully) had to pay for a used copy of George Washington that didn't have an insert.

[matrixschmatrix]

Wait, to clarify- is that everything but the case itself, or do they just send you a new case with everything but the disc? Because I have a bunch of disc only Crits I got at Blockbuster closeouts or whatever that I'd happily pay $5 to fix up

[swo17]

It's $5 per piece of packaging, be that a booklet, sleeve, or a slipcase. They will usually just send you the pieces you order, unless they are feeling generous.

[peerpee]

I've just seen this film for the first time (Criterion Blu-ray) – well aware of its notoriety for many years – but I tried to come at it cold and take it all at face value.

It's a beautiful, poetic epic of the type that Malick and PTA make, so I understand why it didn't clean up at the box office originally, but the film is a tremendous achievement. I don't really want to know what went on with its original release – all this "worst film ever made" and "Cimino sold his soul" rot is resounding bollocks.

The brilliant production design is reminiscent of DAYS OF HEAVEN, THERE WILL BE BLOOD, etc - but also of something like Polanski's CHINATOWN for sheer immersion.

This release is sure to rehabilitate the film's reputation. As Cimino says on the second Blu-ray: "this Criterion edition is a miracle".

[fragnito]

on my blu-ray at 1:27:43 there the screen flickers this bluish smudge all over the entire image. does this happen on anyone else's blu-ray or do you think my disc is defective?i can email an image if needed

[peerpee]

I saw that too - it's only for 5 frames and it looks analogue in nature (ie. not a digital glitch). They must have decided to let that one go (it's less than a quarter of a second).

[feihong]

Not sure if this was covered, but the monochrome sequence when Jeff Bridges stumbles out of the dance hall is in color on the blu-ray. It's still smoky and atmospheric, and the color is not as intense as in the rest of the picture.


I wonder if McCabe & Mrs. Miller will look like this if it ever makes it to blu-ray?

[stwrt]

I wonder if McCabe & Mrs. Miller will look like this if it ever makes it to blu-ray?

It won't be as easy to hear the dialogue in that, Blu-Ray or not.

[peerpee]

On that point, I thought this was interesting, in the HEAVEN'S GATE booklet: "The new 5.1 surround soundtrack was remastered and restored at 24-bit from a 6-track magnetic mix, under the direct supervision of Cimino, with an emphasis on improving the audibility of dialogue." (My emphasis).

[cdnchris]

on my blu-ray at 1:27:43 there the screen flickers this bluish smudge all over the entire image. does this happen on anyone else's blu-ray or do you think my disc is defective?i can email an image if needed

Like Peerpee said it's in the source. It's not just your disc:

[Cold Bishop]

There's always been a few odd patches like that, even when I saw the John Kirk restoration in 35mm.

[stroszeck]

Kristofferson and Cimino during the post-screening back in October

[criterion10]

I watched Heaven's Gate for the first time this past Thanksgiving morning. Overall, I really liked this movie, even if it can be a little long at times. There was something very special about the way Cimino depicted the time period, and that the film focused more on the characters and the lifestyle than a specific plot. I can definitely see how this is not a film for everyone, but the critics at the time were really unfair to this film.

I started going through the supplements, and I think all I have to say is what has already been said, that being that they are rather dissapointing. I didn't get to listen to the Cimino/Carelli audio interview yet, but the other three interviews all felt like "fluff" pieces. There was nothing special about any of them, and they were all rather short. The restoration demonstration and trailer/TV spot were all nice, but other than that this is a really light edition. In a perfect world, we would've seen the Final Cut documentary, the Johnson County War documentary, comparisons between the different cuts, and maybe even reivews by both Vincent Canby and Robin Wood included in the booklet. I understand Cimino doesn't want the extras to present his film in a bad light, but there is still a way to discuss the reaction to the film during the time period without soiling the film. It's a shame, as I'm sure Criterion would've loved to explore these areas.

BTW, in regards to the drastic change with the color scheme of the film, is the current presentation how he always intended it to look, or was it more of a re-design in the same vein of what Friedkin did with the first French Connection Blu-Ray?

[peerpee]

It's not comparable to what Friedkin did to FRENCH CONNECTION – which apparently was not intended (or was immediately regretted), and ultimately led to a replacement, which will no doubt confuse many people if they're hearing all the stories about it but looking at the replacement!

Zsigmond famously 'flashed' the look of HEAVEN'S GATE, like he'd done for McCABE & MRS MILLER, and a number of other films, to achieve a uniquely desaturated look. It's clear from looking at the new Criterion Blu-ray that the flashing has been removed (apart from perhaps on one shot where KK pulls a drunk JB outside).

The look of the film on the Criterion Blu-ray could perhaps be described as "sumptuously normal 35mm", but is definitely minus the Zsigmond flashing. Zsigmond is nowhere to be seen in the entire package.

[stroszeck]

The look of the film on the Criterion Blu-ray could perhaps be described as "sumptuously normal 35mm", but is definitely minus the Zsigmond flashing. Zsigmond is nowhere to be seen in the entire package.

Agree 100%, and as I recall there was a lot of hub bub about that process, and Michael Cimino in particular was hugely responsible for the film being "flashed." Interesting how 30 years later he's changing his tune and how the rest of the critical community doesn't seem to notice...in fact back then that flashing was a major reason the film was panned for its murky "fuzzy" cinematography, which was in fact built into the piece.

[Dylan]

The screen grabs I've seen of the new release retain the "flashed negative" look of Heaven's Gate, which is pretty much the same look nearly every Zsigmond-shot film has up until Blow Out (including Images, McCabe and Mrs. Miller, Obsession, Close Encounters, even the portions he shot of The Picasso Summer), but the quality of the image of course appears to be better than anything available before (as stated by others). What do you mean they "removed" it? It looks like how I remembered it being, more or less.

Strange that Zsigmond isn't to be found on the extras, though. He absolutely loved the film and was very proud of his work on it, and admitted in an interview he'd sunk into a severe depression that lasted nearly a year following the film's savaging.

[Cold Bishop]

As for Vilmos Zsigmond, whose lush cinematography in both The Deer Hunter and Heaven’s Gate earned accolades, Mr. Cimino said: “Vilmos and all those guys have built themselves up to be bigger than directors. It’s bullshit. Does anyone remember who shot Kubrick’s movies? Do you remember who shot David Lean’s movies? No one remembers who shot Dr. Strangelove or Barry Lyndon .”