The Simpsons

[swo17]

Here's a question: What is the last capital-G Great Simpsons episode? I only remember loving three episodes from Season 11 (E-I-E-I-Annoyed Grunt, Hello Gutter Hello Fadder, and Grift of the Magi) so I guess I'd go with one of those.

[Drucker]

I would argue myself, by the way, that some of the first evidence of Homer's oncoming boorishness appears even earlier, during the Mirkin years -- "Homer vs. Flanders" comes to mind, and for me it's the worst show of the first seven years. But I'm one of the weirdos who now thinks the show peaked in seasons two and three, so maybe I'm stretching it.

I wasn't going to bring it up because it wasn't really that on topic, but don't fret I agree. Two and three are superb, and four and five are almost as great. Six you start to see some lapses, imo, but I won't open that can of worms. My friend points out, and I think rightfully so, that early Lisa is much more of a smart-alec than brainiac, and as she evolves more towards the latter, her character suffers.

[matrixschmatrix]

Here's a question: What is the last capital-G Great Simpsons episode? I only remember loving three episodes from Season 11 (E-I-E-I-Annoyed Grunt, Hello Gutter Hello Fadder, and Grift of the Magi) so I guess I'd go with one of those.

Season 9's Trash of the Titans is probably the last one that feels like a real Simpsons episode to me, but in terms of episodes that feel like especially good real Simpsons episodes, I'd have to go back to Season 8- Homer Vs. The Eighteenth Amendment, maybe, or Brother from Another Series. Even there, though, it's more the extraordinary quality of the joke writing than great storytelling that makes them work for me.

I wasn't going to bring it up because it wasn't really that on topic, but don't fret I agree. Two and three are superb, and four and five are almost as great. Six you start to see some lapses, imo, but I won't open that can of worms. My friend points out, and I think rightfully so, that early Lisa is much more of a smart-alec than brainiac, and as she evolves more towards the latter, her character suffers.

Two feels a bit slow to me, and still has a lot of the first season working out the kinks-ness to it. Three and four, I'd compare against any show ever written- but I think that's equally true of five, six, and seven, at the very least.

[Titus]

Here's a question: What is the last capital-G Great Simpsons episode? I only remember loving three episodes from Season 11 (E-I-E-I-Annoyed Grunt, Hello Gutter Hello Fadder, and Grift of the Magi) so I guess I'd go with one of those.

The last episode that I think can comfortably stand next to the show's Golden Age would probably be something from Season 8 -- Grade School Confidential, possibly, or Homer's Enemy. If we're a little more lenient with the "Great" label, then probably one of the Season 9 standouts, like Lisa the Simpson or Lisa's Sax.

Regarding the issue of when the show first started to decline, I really don't think it started until Season 8. It's actually a little shocking how consistent the show's greatness was from Season 1 up through Season 7, given a lot of the turnover within the writing room and some of the drastic changes the show underwent throughout those years. Fans were carping about the show getting too strange and cartoony by Season 4, at least -- and then Mirkin (one of the real MVPs of the show, given how many writers departed right when he came aboard) takes over and the show moves into uncharted levels of absurdism and self-reflexiveness. Then Oakley and Weinstein take over and bring the show back to its roots in Season 7. No showrunner stuck around for more than 2 years during the classic era, which kept the show from stagnating and kept it moving forward, exploring new ideas. Looked at now, all of those years, as different as some of them are, seem equally brilliant to me.

[mfunk9786]

I'd say Guess Who's Coming To Criticize Dinner? is the last episode I'm willing to tag as great, and that's coming after a mostly terrible tenth season, so it was even more surprising that it popped up in Season 11. I still think there are a lot of great episodes in Season 9 and that it's the last great season of the show overall: The City of New York vs. Homer Simpson, Lisa's Sax, The Cartridge Family, Lisa the Skeptic, The Joy of Sect, The Last Temptation of Krust, and Trash of the Titans all stand out as capital-G great episodes to me, and that's still a pretty good batting average for a show that should have been wrapping things up at that point - and I've never been one of those angry anti-Homer's Enemy guys, I think Season 8 is pretty much fantastic across-the-board. Of course, the sad thing is: They were just getting started during the Mike Scully era.

[domino harvey]

I'd say Guess Who's Coming To Criticize Dinner? is the last episode I'm willing to tag as great, and that's coming after a mostly terrible tenth season, so it was even more surprising that it popped up in Season 11.

Truth. This is a truly great classic episode, maybe the last such ever

[cdnchris]

I'd say Guess Who's Coming To Criticize Dinner? is the last episode I'm willing to tag as great, and that's coming after a mostly terrible tenth season, so it was even more surprising that it popped up in Season 11.

Truth. This is a truly great classic episode, maybe the last such ever

I would also agree, solely based on Marge's line: "You like Shake n' Bake. You used to put it in your coffee."

[matrixschmatrix]

I would also agree, solely based on Marge's line: "You like Shake n' Bake. You used to put it in your coffee."

Even the crappiest episodes will sometimes have a great line or exchange, though- the one where Maude Flanders gets killed arbitrarily off, long my mental marker for the point at which I knew the show was probably never going to be good again, had

"Homer, Sherlock Holmes was a character!"
"He suuuure was."

[tarpilot]

I've been trying to convince people for years that "Eight Misbehavin'" is a Great Episode. Any takers here? I'd listen to arguments that it's a little too proto-Family Guy with the Butch Patrick stuff, but I think it features what is pretty easily the finest collection of absurd set-pieces since the classic era -- Homer's make-out set-up, the zoo break-in, the baby show -- and just great line after great line ("juiceless one-tuplets" is an all-timer). And for all the shit I've given his directorial efforts, I've always enormously enjoyed Garry Marshall in acting roles, and his performance is terrific.

[domino harvey]

No way, it's awful to the maxxx, but the commentary for that episode is hilarious-- I never quite understood the appeal of Garry Marshall until hearing him interact with others on that track

[mfunk9786]

Yeah, I have to express my lack of admiration for that... particular... episode.

[JamesF]

No love for "Hungry, Hungry Homer"? That's the last great episode in my eyes, if only for the closing line "For I am the mayor of Albuquerque!"

[mfunk9786]

The episode is far too rooted in nonsensical wackiness (if I remember correctly it was made during a time when it seemed like the endlessly unfunny Duff Man was trotted out for each and every episode) and is centered around a plotline that was completely out of character for Homer. Frankly, I recall it being one of the worst episodes of that era (read: ever). But that's just me!

[Matt]

I like the "I'm trying to ease my stomach pains. I'm moving my legs so my stomach won't hurt. I'm kinda like Jesus, but not in a sacrilegious way." part and the ghost of Cesar Romero.

[Murdoch]

I remember loving that episode. I haven't watched any episode of the show in years, but that's among the ones I can recall fairly easily. It had some great lines "So I gave the guy directions, even though I didn't know the way. Because that's the kind of guy I am this week." Although my opinion probably doesn't hold much weight since I generally enjoyed season 12.

[colinr0380]

"You know me, occasionally I'll be quirky...I'llbequirky? They're moving the team to Albuquerque!"

[dx23]

Criterion Films Referenced on The Simpsons

[colinr0380]

I've been making my way through the Season 15 set and wanted to put in a word for the commentary track on "Catch 'em If You Can" which features Jeff Nathanson, the screenwriter of the Catch Me If You Can film. There are some neat anecdotes for the movie sprinkled throughout that commentary, including that DiCaprio's role was originally written with Dennis Franz in mind; that DiCaprio seemed to be the driving force on the production of the film, despite Nathanson's worries that the casting might expand what was intended to be a little film out too much; and Nathanson gives an amusing description of being sent by Spielberg to talk to Christopher Walken about staying on the film after all of the father and son scenes had been changed from Nathanson's original script!

[Titus]

Conan O'Brien chats with four fellow early-Simpsons writers in the latest installment of "Serious Jibber-Jabber." It's too bad they couldn't get George Meyer or Swartzwelder, but this is still pretty fun and interesting. It would be refreshing if they could actually discuss the show's decline, though, rather than pretending it never happened.

[mfunk9786]

Al Jean is the showrunner at the moment, so I don't know how realistic an expectation that'd be.

[Titus]

Yeah, I understand that, but even if Jean hadn't been present I think it's unlikely that the subject would've been broached. It seems to be taboo for former writers, presumably out of respect to Jean, Groening, Brooks, etc. I was listening to the commentary for "Lisa on Ice" recently. At one point, somebody mentions a gag that they stopped doing on the Simpsons because other animated shows had co-opted it. David Mirkin then jokes that all of their good gags had been stolen by other shows, so they've now decided to just stop being funny altogether -- that this is their way of being fresh and original now. He then clearly realizes how the joke could be interpreted, though, and quickly explains that he's just kidding and that the show is, in fact, still "brilliantly hilarious." It's just kind of disappointing -- it would be really interesting to hear a sincere discussion about the decline of the show from the people who were actually responsible for its greatness in the first place.

[mfunk9786]

Heh, that one was particularly well-timed, since Mike Scully was in the room, who (arguably) was responsible for the decline in the first place, never saying no to a bad idea during his time as showrunner.

[domino harvey]

Definitive proof that there is no God

[The Narrator Returns]

And to think Matt Groening was so violently opposed to the Critic crossover.

[domino harvey]

Apparently this already happened and what the fucking shit: Quagmire rapes Marge Simpson then proceeds to murder entire Simpson family. Are you laughing yet!? And the AV Club uncovered these covert crossovers from Duckman and the Cleveland Show-- who knew!