Rust and Bone (Jacques Audiard, 2012)

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Brian C
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Re: Rust and Bone (Jacques Audiard, 2012)

#26 Post by Brian C »

Matt wrote:I didn't believe it either, yet I found myself tearing up when the song makes a reprise halfway through the film.

I have to strongly disagree with the previous two posters. I absolutely loved this film. Everything worked for me. I rarely knew what was coming next, despite setups that, in the wrong hands, would be eye-rollingly melodramatic. I felt it was a big improvement over Un Prophet, a welcome return to form for Audiard.
I pretty much agree. I don't quite get the gripe about the song, because in context, it's a perfectly logical and appropriate choice.

The only quibble I'd have with the film is that I think, towards the end, Audiard gets a little unsure of who this movie is really about. Ultimately, I feel he makes the movie Alain's story instead of Stephanie's, which is a little disappointing because Stephanie is by far the more interesting and unfamiliar character.

Plus, Cotillard is magnificent, and I thought her character was denied a real ending.
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Matt
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Re: Rust and Bone (Jacques Audiard, 2012)

#27 Post by Matt »

I read an interview with Audiard in which he says that the love story, not the characters themselves, is the hero of the film, and I agree: its struggle to survive and triumph is the story of the film. I think that Stéphanie does get a satisfying ending, though it's not the one we might expect and I think it comes a lot earlier in the film than Ali's. After her accident, she thinks that her life is going to be defined by it and her resulting condition. She's attracted to Ali because he sees her as a person and not a symbol of loss, and (despite the pain of it) treats her like just about any other woman. He also gives her a new purpose in life that she finds she is good at and finds rewarding (again handling big beasts capable of killing). So the scene of her setting up the fight, taking money and pushing around the guys is her ending (where she ends up emotionally). That later gets amplified in a more legitimate realm when Ali's triumph is her triumph as well.

My one quibble with the film is the surveillance camera plot which just feels like a plot device, a Chekhovian gun on the wall. You just know when you see them that they're going to record something that affects the story. However, it's redeemed by the unexpected way it unfolds and the multiple repercussions it has.
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Re: Rust and Bone (Jacques Audiard, 2012)

#28 Post by JabbaTheSlut »

I think that Stéphanie does get a satisfying ending, though it's not the one we might expect and I think it comes a lot earlier in the film than Ali's.
I agree. All in all a very good analysis of the Stephanie-character. But have say that Rust and Bone is somewhat a surprise to work so powerfully emotionally despite the chopped, clumsy structure of the film. It should not work, but it does. One of the best films of last year.
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Matt
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Re: Rust and Bone (Jacques Audiard, 2012)

#29 Post by Matt »

I'd say "loose" or "rough" rather than "clumsy," because the structure is entirely intentional and of a piece with Audiard's other work. It's a naturalistic (verging on impressionistic) style, similar to Arnaud Desplechin's films.

I mentioned that I never knew what was coming next, and I really appreciated that. In fact, I got a little sad during the film knowing that I could only see it for the first time once.
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Re: Rust and Bone (Jacques Audiard, 2012)

#30 Post by JabbaTheSlut »

Structure: "Naturalistic?", I don't understand. Intentional it is of course, but elegant it is not. Clumsy writing. I'm referring to the two pieces in the end. The winter sequence and the conclusion in the very end. They could in lesser hands become just clumsy cuts in time to the high points to quickly solve one character's arc. The passage of movie-time works of course for the benefit of the credibility of Ali's change. The first change has happened invisible for the viewer, the second is shown. These bits feel a bit hurried, not completely satisfactory. But the emotional grip of the narrative is so tight that it keeps, even violently, with the movie.
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Brian C
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Re: Rust and Bone (Jacques Audiard, 2012)

#31 Post by Brian C »

Matt wrote:I read an interview with Audiard in which he says that the love story, not the characters themselves, is the hero of the film; its struggle to survive and triumph is the story of the film.
I realize I'm being uncharitable here, but to me this reads like he set out to do something utterly conventional, and then succeeded. There are a million hack movies that set out to make "the love story" the hero of their films, and granted, Rust and Bone is vastly superior to most of them. But it's still aiming really low, just to contrive to make two characters end up in love.

My problem - and I don't want to make it sound major, because I liked the movie - is that Alain just isn't a very interesting character. He thinks with his dick, he's a father who's only occasionally interested in parenting, he's easily swayed by the allure of a few extra bucks ... these are all very standard and endlessly explored qualities, and I don't think the film brings much to the table here except for a moderately unconvincing late realization on Alain's part of what's Really Important to him or whatever. Interestingly, I thought there was a hint of a deeper characterization in the film, early when he hints to his sister as to his reason for leaving the boy's mother, but this is never developed and we don't see much more of him than the typical mediocre alpha-male.

Stephanie, meanwhile, is a genuinely unique and compelling character, even before her accident. You make a good case that her arc had reached a satisfying conclusion earlier in the film, and I can buy that, but that only renders what follows superfluous. I frankly didn't care much about the love story, and think it makes a lousy hero, because while I can understand the appeal for both characters of the relationship, I don't for a second believe it "triumphs", because I don't think it's on any steadier ground at the end than it was in any earlier points of the movie. I think it's going to be just as rocky for them in the day after the film ends as it was the day before. Far from a triumph, it seems at best another uneasy truce between the two, given undue weight by a filmmaker who was perhaps a little too eager to make something more of it. Simply put, it felt forced to me.
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Matt
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Re: Rust and Bone (Jacques Audiard, 2012)

#32 Post by Matt »

I should have put the quote from the interview in more context:
In a film where even the camera equipment gets brutalised, what chance do puny humans stand? Well, that’s Audiard’s thesis: to test his characters’ capacity to love to its mortal limit.

“When we worked together on A Prophet, we said that a hero only becomes a hero when he suffers greatly,” says Bidegain. “And when we were writing Rust and Bone, we said the hero this time would be the love story itself.

“The most heroic thing you can do is tell someone that you love them,” adds Audiard. “Love can beat the hell out of you. But I can also beat the hell out of love.”
In other interviews, Audiard has admitted that the film is a melodrama (in fact, he calls it "Melo-trash"), so it's not like he was aiming high with his story and fell short. Melodramas need types, and the hyper-masculine, id-driven hero (often a fighter or some other danger-obsessed guy) who pays attention to the damaged heroine when no one else does is a pretty stock type. So is the dad who is more buddy than father to his kids. No, Ali is not a particularly novel character, but he's recognizable and real.

Audiard also intends him to be the main character. Stéphanie's story and character being more interesting is a subtle red herring:
Jacques Audiard wrote:At certain times we thought we would tell the story of the two characters at the same level. But both characters are not equals and the main character is him. He’s the one that brings us into the story. Because [of] the accident Stephanie’s character has you tend to think that she ‘s the lead character and that’s the character that will lead the story but that’s wrong. The lead character is the guy.
Not to give the characters equal treatment may be a mistake, though. Despite the earlier resolution of her character arc, we do miss Stéphanie toward the end of the film.
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Anhedionisiac
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Re: Rust and Bone (Jacques Audiard, 2012)

#33 Post by Anhedionisiac »

I saw it some months ago and found it a fine film, very well-made, but I also had one major quibble that I haven't been able to shake off.
Doesn't it bother anybody else that
Spoiler
Alain's child survives falling trough the ice and spending several minutes underwater? Even worse, God knows how long it took Alain to take him to the hospital!
Maybe I'm not well informed enough about these matters but I had a hard time giving Audiard the benefit of the doubt and suspending my disbelief...
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Matt
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Re: Rust and Bone (Jacques Audiard, 2012)

#34 Post by Matt »

Spoiler
It's not impossible or even unheard of that he could survive, but it would be really unlikely for him not to have some amount of brain damage.
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matrixschmatrix
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Re: Rust and Bone (Jacques Audiard, 2012)

#35 Post by matrixschmatrix »

Somebody hasn't seen Skyfall. Today's modern human is immune to cold, heat, falling, and emotions.
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Anhedionisiac
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Re: Rust and Bone (Jacques Audiard, 2012)

#36 Post by Anhedionisiac »

Not just Skyfall. Liam Neeson also managed to stave off hypothermia in The Grey, didn't he?
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Matt
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Re: Rust and Bone (Jacques Audiard, 2012)

#37 Post by Matt »

Brian C wrote:I frankly didn't care much about the love story, and think it makes a lousy hero, because while I can understand the appeal for both characters of the relationship, I don't for a second believe it "triumphs", because I don't think it's on any steadier ground at the end than it was in any earlier points of the movie. I think it's going to be just as rocky for them in the day after the film ends as it was the day before. Far from a triumph, it seems at best another uneasy truce between the two, given undue weight by a filmmaker who was perhaps a little too eager to make something more of it. Simply put, it felt forced to me.
I meant to respond to this but forgot. I don't disagree. If anything, the last shot of the film is the beginning of the real story of how these three characters are going to function as anything resembling a normal nuclear family. The ending could be read as "happily ever after," which would not be outside of Audiard's characterization of the film as a fairy tale (which, nevertheless, I don't quite buy), but I think it's pretty obvious that the ending is "happy for now."
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Anhedionisiac
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Re: Rust and Bone (Jacques Audiard, 2012)

#38 Post by Anhedionisiac »

While I don't dislike Alain as much as Grand Illusion nor consider him as boring as Brian does (I found him a compelling enough antihero, maybe not as fascinating as Schoenaerts character in Bullhead but Rust and Bone is a far better film than Bullhead so it's a fair trade-off), my other quibble with the ending was that it was hard to believe that Stéphanie could be able to forgive him for abandoning her, not to mention the fact that he was given another chance by his sister at being his son's father.
However, Brian C's reading of the ending and Matt's conclusion that it's not necessarily a happy ending per se, more like an uneasy alliance, make it that much easier for me to accept the last shots of the film as perfectly consistent with what came before. I guess I was too shaken by my disbelief concerning the boy's accident to understand that there was more going on that it seemed!
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Re: Rust and Bone (Jacques Audiard, 2012)

#39 Post by Adam »

JabbaTheSlut wrote:Structure: "Naturalistic?", I don't understand. Intentional it is of course, but elegant it is not. Clumsy writing. I'm referring to the two pieces in the end. The winter sequence and the conclusion in the very end. They could in lesser hands become just clumsy cuts in time to the high points to quickly solve one character's arc. The passage of movie-time works of course for the benefit of the credibility of Ali's change. The first change has happened invisible for the viewer, the second is shown. These bits feel a bit hurried, not completely satisfactory. But the emotional grip of the narrative is so tight that it keeps, even violently, with the movie.
Yeah, those two ellipses didn't work for me. They were too much, unreal, and didn't feel earned. Made the film in the end seem like a well-edited, well-shot ridiculous fantasy. I was with someone who liked it a lot more; but it didn't work for me. Those sort of things that "just happen" to satisfy the needs of narrative expectation are a flaw in film for me. The first hour of the film, worked for me (despite it being kinda ridiculous on its own as well), but the physical linkage made sense, and seemed to be a set in a world with one set of rules. Then we get throw into a different world.

I didn't know that Audiard called it a "fairy tale." I buy that as an explanation of his intention, but the extreme leaps made to achieve the "happy ending" were too extreme for me.
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Re: Rust and Bone (Jacques Audiard, 2012)

#40 Post by HistoryProf »

Boy, this was a real let down. I had heard a lot of effusive praise for how raw and emotional it was, but I found it precisely the opposite and absent a single likable human being. Alain worked hard to be a complete dick with no empathy for anyone around him, and the way he treated Stephanie was infuriating. The fact that she not only put up with it, but in the end embraces him, rendered her a rather pathetic character too. Dressing it all up with shots towards the sky and magic hour sunshine seeping through the lens did little to allay my feeling that nothing anyone did in the film felt natural. "Forced" is putting it mildly.

I really loved A Prophet and had high hopes for this, but for me it fails on every level. I kept waiting for some kind of redemption for anyone at all, and instead got a conclusion of Alain's pat disinterest almost killing his son which leads to reuniting with Stephanie after he had, again, completely abandoned her? what? The only thing "raw" about either main character is their sheer unlikability and my frustration with her putting up with his shit. If this is Audiard's view of a fairy tale, it has to be the worst fairy tale ever conceived. There were opportunities with Stephanie throughout, but inexplicably they are shrugged off so that we can go back to Alain. The one major shot at redemption or "Triumph" I was waiting for was her return to work at the Sea Park. She visits, but then that's that. But it was obviously what she loved to do...so she's just going to abandon that?
Brian C wrote:Stephanie, meanwhile, is a genuinely unique and compelling character, even before her accident. You make a good case that her arc had reached a satisfying conclusion earlier in the film, and I can buy that, but that only renders what follows superfluous. I frankly didn't care much about the love story, and think it makes a lousy hero, because while I can understand the appeal for both characters of the relationship, I don't for a second believe it "triumphs", because I don't think it's on any steadier ground at the end than it was in any earlier points of the movie. I think it's going to be just as rocky for them in the day after the film ends as it was the day before. Far from a triumph, it seems at best another uneasy truce between the two, given undue weight by a filmmaker who was perhaps a little too eager to make something more of it. Simply put, it felt forced to me.
This sums the major failings for me as well. I simply can't understand why Audiard chose to make Stephanie the secondary character, never mind her relationship with a stunted asshole. Every facet of the story is forced.

And finally, I know this is neither here nor there for the film, but I was really disappointed to see that Cotillard has clearly had breast implants. She's a very talented actress, and it always saddens me to see any woman fall prey to feeling that they are lesser or unattractive because they don't have D cups. It's even sadder that this Hollywood mentality can apparently reach overseas once a European actress gets acclaim in the US.
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Re: Rust and Bone (Jacques Audiard, 2012)

#41 Post by feihong »

I basically felt as you did, although I wasn't too thrilled with A Prophet to begin with. But I loved Read My Lips and The Beat My Heart Skipped, and I think Audiard is at once reaching for more surrealistic material but on the other hand trying to make it seem ordinary, commonplace and without melodrama. To that extent he tries to adopt a hyper-attentive camera style and a restless editing technique. It's an approach which worked in Read My Lips and The Beat My Heart Skipped because A) those films featured central situations--a secretly deaf woman and a no-hope con against the world, a man torn between his mother's emotionally overwrought world of the classical piano and his father's hedonistic world of violent debt collecting--that provided more than their fair share of melodrama, so that with the distancing effect of the mis-en-scene the involving dramatic quotient still remained high, and B) the worlds the characters traversed in both features felt as if they were appropriately expressed with the kind of restless, hyper-detailed observation that style evoked. In Read My Lips the camera seemed to duplicate the kind of furtive spying glance both these nominal "heroes" are trying so desperately to avoid, while the restless camera of The Beat My Heart Skipped seemed to replicate the desperate schism in the hero's heart, between one life, one parent, and another.

Audiard approached this movie in the same way as the previous ones, but this time with characters whose lives were not perhaps as appropriate to the kind of nervous camera and editing style he applies. He seems hardly to have adjusted his mis-en-scene to give these characters a change of perspective or pace. Furthermore, the melodrama has been severely ratcheted-down, making the film feel as if it is plodding forward with the bare minimum of vitality--right up until the ending, which is so flagrantly melodramatic it could have come from D.W.Griffith. The tone of the film feels severely off; the scenes Audiard has chosen to single out of these people's lives don't always seem like the scenes that would yield the most dramatic or thematic interest. It isn't only that Alain is hard to like; it's hard to figure out what the hell is going on with him most of the time. The luckless capacity for pain, hurt and hardship in Vincent Cassel's character from Read My Lips feels shot through with audiences sainted sympathy next to what Schoenaerts' Alain does for us. It's not only that Cassel's character is at least as stoic as Alain; but he manages to show viewers what he is hiding--what his stoicism costs him--and Alain never comes so close to us. As for Stephanie, Cotillard was more sympathetic than I expected her to be. She has the more compelling emotional evolution in the film, but she really does get abandoned towards the end of the film, and she does seem like the main character until then--or at least, the most involving character.
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