Only God Forgives (Nicolas Winding Refn, 2013)

[warren oates]

Like Gaspar Noe's soulless, empty headed movies this was an exercise of who cares about a script? Lets throw a bunch of shit on the screen and have fun with different colored lights to make it look cool.

Gaspar Noe seems like an unfair reference to me. Especially if you're talking about his pre-Enter The Void provocations. Noe indeed fancied himself a serious artist before he'd found anything real to say. He was abusing extremes of sex and violence to bolster unearned arthouse credit, to bowl us over with his heavosity. Which looks very different next to the blissful, unabashedly lurid emptiness of Only God Forgives. I wouldn't mistake Winding Refn's dark subject matter or serious tone for his taking the whole thing so seriously. Which is not to say he isn't playing it straight, just that he doesn't pretend to be delivering a treatise on the nature of humanity.

[matrixschmatrix]

Without a doubt for I don't see Gosling 'pulling off' anything in any of his roles. The guy basically plays a tree trunk of a different size in all of his films. At least Van Damme has a tiny bit of charisma and would more importantly send this film directly to home video where it belongs instead of your local repertory theater.

I sometimes wonder if people's eyes just work differently than mine do, because I literally cannot understand how one arrives at this conclusion given the Gosling performances I've seen. He's not always great, certainly, but I don't think I've ever seen him be wooden- his face always suggests a hidden world and soulfulness, even when the character he's playing doesn't actually match that. He's not a hugely dynamic performer, I suppose- Driver is part of the same continuum as his guy in The Notebook- but he's anything but blank, and I'm not sure that chamelonic versatility is necessary to be an interesting lead.

[John Cope]

I sometimes wonder if people's eyes just work differently than mine do, because I literally cannot understand how one arrives at this conclusion given the Gosling performances I've seen. He's not always great, certainly, but I don't think I've ever seen him be wooden- his face always suggests a hidden world and soulfulness, even when the character he's playing doesn't actually match that. He's not a hugely dynamic performer, I suppose- Driver is part of the same continuum as his guy in The Notebook- but he's anything but blank, and I'm not sure that chamelonic versatility is necessary to be an interesting lead.

How anyone could say that he's wooden or a blank void if they've seen his career establishing performance in The Believer is beyond me. I have to assume Black Hat hasn't seen that. It's one of the greatest performances of the 00's. His later performances have followed through on that promise, depending on material of course. The Slaughter Rule, Half Nelson, Blue Valentine and, yes, Drive are among his best. He isn't given near enough credit these days as far as I'm concerned. Turning into a "movie star" sometimes has that effect.

[Iamhere]

"I give "Only God Forgives" respect for treating it's audience so well and not giving it simple characters nor plot which is explained all in
dialogue, but instead through the art of cinema, showing, not telling. The visual. " -http://www.jeremyizzo.com/only-god-forgives

The fact that everyone hates Gosling for not enough lines is beyond me... Refn did a fine job showing you don't need there to be lines to make a connection.

Like orson welles said, a film needs to be in conversation with the audience, meaning the artist shouldn't give a full scene but instead the audience should add too, so there is a back and forth. I got this with "Only God Forgives."

[mfunk9786]

Give me a break with this guy

[phantomforce]

I must say, Gosling does make a convincing psychopath and even made me a little jumpy when he

Spoiler

screamed and yelled at the singer/dancer to take the dress off in the alley

and whoever said a place beyond the pines is an abomination, wow... Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, obviously, but that film was masterfully done. A great script with a fantastic message, great pacing and editing, great cinematography and a phenomenal use of Mike Patton's score. If you don't like Gosling, fine, but he did a fine job, as did Mendez, Cooper, Liotta, Mendohlson and especially Emory Cohen and Dane DeHaan.

[mfunk9786]

But the whole idea is that he's not... ah, forget it

[Black Hat]

I have to assume Black Hat hasn't seen that.

Correct. The films of his I recall seeing are the aforementioned two from this year, Drive, Blue Valentine and The Notebook which to be honest I barely remember. Although I don't think they're the pile of crap like I do of his films from this year, my feelings are very ambivalent towards Drive and Blue Valentine. I would however say that his performances aren't really what come to mind which given the lack of talent to date I have seen from him is a compliment.

[Black Hat]

I must say, Gosling does make a convincing psychopath and even made me a little jumpy when he

Spoiler

screamed and yelled at the singer/dancer to take the dress off in the alley

Ha! That's exactly the scene which had me and a couple of other audience memberss rolling. One man's unintentional comedy is another man's jumpiness.

and whoever said a place beyond the pines is an abomination, wow... Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, obviously, but that film was masterfully done. A great script with a fantastic message, great pacing and editing, great cinematography and a phenomenal use of Mike Patton's score. If you don't like Gosling, fine, but he did a fine job, as did Mendez, Cooper, Liotta, Mendohlson and especially Emory Cohen and Dane DeHaan.

If that cliche ridden, predictable, overstuffed tour de snore was masterfully done I really don't know what to tell you. Sometimes I think our standards for what we consider to be good, especially good American Cinema has been flushed down the toilet thanks to years of second, even third class movies that have succeeded in dumbing down our expectations. Although the script at this point was firmly lodged in the bathroom pipe, I thought the performances the two teenage boys gave were great.

[domino harvey]

I think Gosling can be very charming in things like Crazy. Stupid. Love. and the early passages of Blue Valentine, but I do think he's being called on to just be a blank vessel in some of these more art house leaning flicks. I think he has a strong charismatic element to his persona that lets this slide by for most, but it could easily become a crutch-- I'd love to see him do something lowkey and light again

[warren oates]

What about Lars and the Real Girl? You'd be hard pressed to find a similar role in the rest of his filmography.

[Black Hat]

I do think he's being called on to just be a blank vessel in some of these more art house leaning flicks.

I think this is a fair observation.

[phantomforce]

I must say, Gosling does make a convincing psychopath and even made me a little jumpy when he

Spoiler

screamed and yelled at the singer/dancer to take the dress off in the alley

Ha! That's exactly the scene which had me and a couple of other audience movies rolling. One man's unintentional comedy is another man's jumpiness.

I shouldn't have used the word jumpy, more like awkward if anything. I still say I'm convinced though. He does the same in Place Beyond the Pines and while it doesn't work in the context of portraying a bank robber/bad ass, I think it works specifically because the characters he plays are not bad asses. They are reserved, scared, nervous individuals that freak out any time they are out of their comfort zone. Sure, it looks funny, but it's very human.

and whoever said a place beyond the pines is an abomination, wow... Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, obviously, but that film was masterfully done. A great script with a fantastic message, great pacing and editing, great cinematography and a phenomenal use of Mike Patton's score. If you don't like Gosling, fine, but he did a fine job, as did Mendez, Cooper, Liotta, Mendohlson and especially Emory Cohen and Dane DeHaan.

If that cliche ridden, predictable, overstuffed tour de snore was masterfully done I really don't know what to tell you. Sometimes I think our standards for what we consider to be good, especially good American Cinema has been flushed down the toilet thanks to years of second, even third class movies that have succeeded in dumbing down our expectations. Although the script at this point was firmly lodged in the bathroom pipe, I thought the performances the two teenage boys gave were great.

I wont argue with your points or observations, however valid they may be, But I found Blue Valentine and PBTP have struck a chord with me on a more personal level that I can relate to which is probably why I enjoyed them so much.

[Iamhere]

I think there is something special to be said that the film is has harshly divided into either crap or masterpiece. This is an ambition filmmaker...and that is worth being appreciated. There is too many lukewarm films being honored (such as Argo) and it's nice to see an auteur in this generation trying.

There are many analysis pooping up (recently watched a youtube one with chris stuckman that impressed me) which is nice to see regarding a film. Again, the fact that refn tried (I used "tried" in case you didn't like it) to make a story mostly through the visual is a beautiful thing, getting back to it's roots where plots are explained or character background is explain through spoken words.

As far as Gosling is concerned. I think the best films this year were "only god forgives" and "the place beyond the pines." The first tow stories of "the place..." were excellent while the last was a bit too much and cliche. However the story shocked me(though often cliche or unoriginal) and it's care for it's characters (which was emotional).

[domino harvey]

I will delete any post going forward that argues the worth of this film in terms of its polarizing response. Love the film or hate it or be indifferent, but come up with a different way to make your case

[matrixschmatrix]

There are many analysis pooping up

Not to make fun of a non-native speaker, but I think this is more accurate than it intends to be

[knives]

Thank you. The board has gotten almost unreadable lately.

[mfunk9786]

I will delete any post going forward that argues the worth of this film

I'd be happy with this, quite frankly. Far too much time spent in this thread arguing some sort of "value" of this film beyond any level of critical analysis. It's either worthless or valuable as some sort of cultural commodity, rather than being discussed as an actual film. This isn't an Ain't It Cool News comment section, but whenever a hip director releases a film, it slowly starts to fill with inarticulate lurkers and looks more and more like it.

[jindianajonz]

I will delete any post going forward that argues the worth of this film

I'd be happy with this, quite frankly. Far too much time spent in this thread arguing some sort of "value" of this film beyond any level of critical analysis. It's either worthless or valuable as some sort of commodity, rather than being discussed as an actual film.

I completely disagree with you. But I guess our polarized reactions only go to show how valuable Dom's strategy is.

[mfunk9786]

Sorry, I was editing as you posted. Agree to disagree, I guess? I don't know how you could look at this thread and disagree with what I said, though.

[jindianajonz]

Sorry, I was editing as you posted. Agree to disagree, I guess? I don't know how you could look at this thread and disagree with what I said, though.

Don't worry about it, I was just being an ass.

[mfunk9786]

I get it now. I need a drink.

[Black Hat]

and PBTP have struck a chord with me on a more personal level that I can relate to

Now this I find very interesting if you want to give articulating it a shot that would be terrific. Personally what I felt Cianfrance did an excellent job of was capturing the teenage scene of that part of New York state, I really felt that I knew those characters. Unfortunately for me I felt that were a lot of movies within the movie and as a film it would of worked a lot better if one of those were flushed out to completion.

[Iamhere]

I'm trying to figure out the man point of the argument against, so I can explain my reasons for.
It seems most don't like the silence or statue like being of Julian's character.
Would it be too easy to assume that it is almost the point of his character? That his upbringing of an incesnt mother has caused great damage. He was raised by this perversion which ruined his brother Billys life and later forced him to kill his own father out of jealously with his bare HANDS.
Living with that guilt which he bares has turned him into a psychological mess where he fantasies about being in a real relationship with Mai and is haunted by the guilt of his own killing of his father by looking at his hands.

[criterion10]

In all honesty, I don't think Julian's silent state means anything else than Nicolas Winding Refn demonstrating his love for silence in cinema. (He has claimed in many interviews that he feels silence is incredibly cinematic. Pretty much all of his films demonstrate this.)

I do think that giving this film some time to sink in has helped me appreciate it more. I'm interested to see how it holds up on a second viewing. Will probably wait for the Blu-Ray.