Breaking Bad

[swo17]

A lot of the episode didn't feel earned to me

I can relate to the feeling of plot developments feeling logical but not quite earned--I didn't feel this away about this week's episode, but I did a little about Jesse conveniently acting petulant a couple weeks ago so that Huell could pick his pocket again--though I'm generally more forgiving of this than I would be for something that I held to the standard of brilliance. (Because yes, it's possible to enjoy the show without necessarily finding it capital B "Brilliant.")

I believe I've said here before that I wasn't much of a fan of the show during the first couple seasons, and there are still some things that I think keep it down. (For instance, I find the character of Jesse compelling in inverse proportion to his use of street talk. I also think the show routinely makes camera and music choices that favor "coolness" over artistry. Which is fine, and is probably part of why it's become so popular, but it's always going to keep the show several rungs below something like The Wire to me.) That being said, I think the show has improved tremendously over the last few seasons, and I generally find it quite clever and entertaining to watch, about as good as anything else on TV at the moment (that I've seen). I just think it maybe does the show a bit of a disservice to call it "brilliant," and I can see how domino and others might be reacting against that to some extent.

[Andre Jurieu]

But "brilliant" doesn't necessarily mean "flawless" and I think that's an assumption people tend to make rather hastily whenever they are told by others that something is "extremely good" or considered to be the "best" at a specific time-period. In my mind, Breaking Bad does display brilliance, as did The Wire, as does Mad Men, as did Happy Endings, but that certainly doesn't mean those shows are flawless or that they can always sustain their brilliance in every single moment they choose to display.

Also, I think people are discounting the worth of the white-supremacists and the corporate interests that are representing the foreign mafia. What Walt is now facing is no longer individual opponents, but instead long-established, institutional crime - much like Fring did against the Mexican cartel. They might not be high-brow, but they are a means to display that Walt has dipped his foot into bigger body of water than he anticipated or was prepared for when he initially decided to wade into this cesspool (to carry a metaphor way past its usefulness).

[warren oates]

It's perhaps not even lowercase b brilliant filmmaking, technically. But it's absolutely capital B Brilliant storytelling, in terms of making us all want to know (plot/thriller) and to care (character) what happens next. I love the show in spite of its sometimes callow film school camera angles. Occasionally questionable taste aside, the production value of the whole has always been pretty high for its budget, even in the lean early seasons. In that regard, it's the polar opposite of The Wire (whose makers never saw a crap VFX shot they didn't love) in terms of visual polish.

Isn't part of the deal with Jesse that he's a sort of middle class dropout, a self-styled bad boy, a bit of a wigger. How authentic should his street talk sound, then?

I know the exact moment I became a fan of the show and it had nothing to do with any of the stuff most fans rave about or most detractors criticize. It was in one of the first episodes, where Walt's family has an intervention to talk to him about his cancer treatment and they pass a talking pillow around in a circle. Skyler, Walt Jr., Marie and Hank all talk and offer Walt their concerned advice. And every single one of them speaks from their heart and from their totally singular point of view, completely in character. And they are all right. All of their advice is sound. And Walt still has to decide what to do for himself. That to me is the essence of Brilliant dramatic writing. It would have been so much easier to have a version of that scene where Walt was clearly at fault in some way, or where some of what was said -- say, by Hank for instance -- was merely played for laughs (funny as it is) or more easily dismissable as narrow-minded or self-interested. Or to end the scene with some kind of decision, with a feeling that the way forward was clear. More often than not, even when the show's more in thriller mode, Vince Gilligan and his writers have kept to that high standard of writing with absolute fidelity to their characters.

[swo17]

Isn't part of the deal with Jesse that he's a sort of middle class dropout, a self-styled bad boy, a bit of a wigger. How authentic should his street talk sound, then?

I'm not necessarily questioning the authenticity of it (I wouldn't really know), I just don't find the dialogue to be all that interesting when every sentence is punctuated with the word "bitch."

[Andre Jurieu]

I'm not necessarily questioning the authenticity of it (I wouldn't really know), I just don't find the dialogue to be all that interesting when every sentence is punctuated with the word "bitch."

I thought the use of word "bitch" was pretty entertaining and authentic early on, but it's started to become kind of a unnecessary trope that the writers have started to use as a crutch sometimes. Nowadays it kind of feels equivalent to Kramer entering Jerry's apartment in a clumsy and out-of-control way, just because the audience expects it to happen every episode. Then again, not much time has really passed by on the show, so I'm not sure Jesse's vocabulary would have made much of a dramatic improvement in this short a time-period.

[flyonthewall2983]

(Walt Jr's star-struck reaction to Saul was maybe the only thing I really cared for in the last episode)

That was a pretty great moment. Mitte emoted what it's exactly like for a teenager to meet a local celebrity.

[Quot]

(Walt Jr's star-struck reaction to Saul was maybe the only thing I really cared for in the last episode)

That was a pretty great moment. Mitte emoted what it's exactly like for a teenager to meet a local celebrity.

His "Have an A1 Day!" and the subsequent "Mom, you didn't say it." were delivered perfectly by Mitte.

[flyonthewall2983]

Perfect

[Drucker]

Episode 514 in full has leaked on youtube [/joke]

[The Narrator Returns]

I have no words.

[domino harvey]

Well... if the show was always this good, I'd complete co-sign the hype. Emotionally-wrenching stuff-- the entire act from Walt Jr learning the secret to Holly being kidnapped was the best thing the show ever did

[flyonthewall2983]

Fincher. Haneke. Aronofsky. Pussies.

[flyonthewall2983]

But seriously, that was probably the most uncomfortable hour of television drama I've ever witnessed. I expected some of it, but the rest just...

Jesus Christ.

Well... if the show was always this good, I'd complete co-sign the hype. Emotionally-wrenching stuff-- the entire act from Walt Jr learning the secret to Holly being kidnapped was the best thing the show ever did

One of us. One of us.

[The Narrator Returns]

It's fitting that since Rian Johnson directed this episode, it resembled an hour long version of this.

[Red Screamer]

Prediction: Walt frees Jeese from the white supremacists killing a few of them in the process and gives Jesse the opportunity to kill him. He takes it

[mfunk9786]

I think he takes the ricin before he begins the process of trying to save Jesse. Not all that sure that the process will end well. I can't see this show ending with Walt being a guns blazing hero.

[OnOnt]

Prediction: Walt frees Jeese from the white supremacists killing a few of them in the process and gives Jesse the opportunity to kill him. He takes it

How do you think the ricin plays into that? I'll twist your prediction a little bit and say that Walt kills Jesse with the ricin because he wants him killed and the supremacists won't do it now that he's their slave.

[mfunk9786]

There's no way that Walt would come out of hiding just to make sure that Jesse is killed. No way. If anything, his guilt eats him alive.

[cinemartin]

As far as Walt knows Jesse's already dead. After all, it is what he ordered. I don't know why Walt would come back for Jesse - I guess some sort of guilt could do it but it seems like a bit of a stretch.

There was a shot tonight of the sliding mirror in Walt's room - he opened when he was packing. It lingered for a moment on this mirror and reminded me of the cold open flash forward when he returns to his house. That mirror is smashed and Walt takes a long look in it. That broken mirror could be just from the vandals who skate his pool, or it could be a reminder of some violence that has happened/has yet to happen - violence that could jog Walt from his 11 million dollar safe haven in New Hampshire back to ABQ with nothing to lose.

[flyonthewall2983]

I honestly cannot make any predictions, nor want to. I will say that I saw a few things coming, namely that Saul's relocation guy would be the one to take Walt east (to come back from during the cold openings). I was also waiting to see that truck come into play after seeing it in Cranston's interview on CBS Sunday Morning, the day the first episode of this 8 aired.

The leeway the white supremacists gave Walt surprised me, namely Jack giving him a barrel and not leaving him broke. Plus them not hitting him up to cook for them and deciding to use Jesse instead (okay one prediction, they arrive at his house and go ape shit when they can't find him), using his ex and Brock as a threat.

[mfunk9786]

I think they've heard about and seen how ruthless Walt is and didn't want to get on his bad side. So they figured by leaving him with a barrel, he could get out of town and leave them alone.

[Andre Jurieu]

Wouldn't it just have been easier to shoot him in the middle of nowhere if they believe him to be ruthless? They killed Hank for a perceived threat. I think the white supremacists have a fairly accurate perception of Walt. They understand he's capable to being cold-blooded to protect his own interests, but I think they know he's not that well-connected and somewhat hesitant to get his own hands dirty when he could just farm out the job. Walt might be ruthless, but he's actually just hiring the supremacists to be ruthless for him and without their trigger-finger, he's far less powerful. I don't believe they perceive Walt as a threat, because if they did, they just crippled his financial position and destroyed his family without much consideration. I think they were honest with him - he's living because Todd respects him greatly and is troubled by the idea of killing him or entirely crippling him financially.

The scenes between Walt and Jesse were incredibly sad to watch, especially after another great opening scene. The family stuff had less of an impact for me, just because Jesse has always been the family that Walt has chosen rather than the one he's always had. The sense of betrayal that Walt must have felt after Hank was executed was incredibly conveyed by Cranston.

[Drucker]

Regarding Walt's breakdown after Hank's death, I kind of chalked it up to him still, up til that point, deluding himself into thinking things could go back to normal once all this is over (evidenced further by him thinking, after Hank's dead, he could get his family out of town and start over). Once Hank is dead, there is no going back in his mind. Now his life really is changed forever, for the worse, and he can't put it back together.

[swo17]

Jesse has always been the family that Walt has chosen rather than the one he's always had.

Isn't that saying usually used in reference to a child's relationship with his or her parents and siblings? Presumably Walt chose to be with Skyler at some point, and they chose to have children as well.

[matrixschmatrix]

I think the difference is that Jesse is the one with whom we've seen him create a relationship, rather than having the relationship presented to us as an established thing- so that we're really invested in that one. Though that also means that Jesse is as much the child of Heisenberg as of anyone else at this point.