52-59 / BD 36-37, 71-72 Late Mizoguchi: Eight Films, 1951-56

[Michael Kerpan]

Ditto here, but with a different caveat. I'm not that big of a Mizoguchi fan

I'll be interested in your response to Gion bayashi and Crucified Lovers (my strong favorites in this set).

[Matt]

Crucified Lovers is actually the only Mizoguchi film I like. I know, I'm a cretin.

[doc mccoy]

Ditto here, but with a different caveat. I'm not that big of a Mizoguchi fan

I'll be interested in your response to Gion bayashi and Crucified Lovers (my strong favorites in this set).

My favourites too - I've also a got a soft spot for the Lady in rumour.

I find Miss Oyu too hard to revisit.

[Drucker]

It's not that I dislike the films. Again, I did enjoy Sansho and Ugetsu quite a bit. But I found the Eclipse set an absolute chore and there was just so much negativity and heartache that it wore on me after awhile. I also initially merely "liked" the Ozu films I watched, but have recently come around and begin to fall in love with his films. Hopefully when I get to revisiting Mizo, it'll happen with his works too.

[Michael Kerpan]

On average, I don't have the same "love" for Mizoguchi that I do for Ozu (or Naruse or Shimizu or Yamanaka), but rather "respect" for his cinematic vision. But I do outright love some of Mizoguchi's films. ;~}

I think, in some ways, it is harder to attune oneself to Mizoguchi's wavelength than to that of his (known to us today) pre-war colleagues, all of whom were strongly influenced by Hollywood and by proto-realism. Mizoguchi was hardly unaware of US and European cinema, but he was more deeply rooted in shimpa theater (the first wave of western influenced drama, which sort of blended European drama with kabuki -- with no women performers allowed).

[swo17]

So, to summarize: Eureka has somehow managed to get us all to buy, for a third time(!), eight movies that we don't even really like that much, just so we don't possibly regret not having done so one day, in the event that we change our minds. How exactly is this not the perfect model to use to give Naruse/Pialat another try? :-"

[Michael Kerpan]

Crucified Lovers is actually the only Mizoguchi film I like. I know, I'm a cretin.

Not sure what other films you've seen, Matt.

Crucified Lovers, unlike Oharu, actually preserves some of the (sometimes cruel -- but not always) humor of the underlying source works (not just Chikamatsu but also Saikaku). Possibly because of this, despite all the ultimate tragedy, the work seems more balanced and the characters more believable than the Mizo norm. Humor is in very short supply in most other Mizoguchi works. As I much prefer dramatic works with some quantifiable degree of humor to those without, learning to appreciate Mizoguchi's (manifold) virtues took a bit of work. Had lots of other Japanese films of the same era (Naruse, Shimizu, Yamanaka, Shimazu, Uchida, et al) been equally available in the early 2000s, Mizoguchi might not have gotten as many extra chances as he did.

How exactly is this not the perfect model to use to give Naruse/Pialat another try?

As to Naruse, his films don't self-announce their own importance the way Mizoguchi's do. His more humble approach led him to often be under-estimated in his own day (e.g. Kido at Shochiku) as well as in ours. In any event, at this point, I DO actually very much like most of the Mizoguchi films I've seen (which includes all but one one of those stillsurviving).

[chatterjees]

This could sound as a dumb question. I also ordered the set (I already own the 2 individual releases). What are the chances that Criterion may release those other films in future? I don't think I have seen anybody discussing that aspect. I may have missed something. I know that I freaked out and ordered the whole set (I consider that unrealistic, sorry). I just don't understand why the Mizo fans have to think that if they don't get the set, it could be the end of the world for them. So, what are the chances for Criterion releases?

[swo17]

Criterion has already put out Street of Shame on Eclipse, so it's probably unlikely to be upgraded. They'll surely upgrade Ugetsu at some point, and maybe eventually one or (big stretch) two other titles from this box, but it seems unlikely that they'd do more than that.

[zedz]

If we do eventually see some of these titles from Criterion, they're likely to be on Eclipse. Most of the secondary features in these sets aren't big name titles and wouldn't warrant standalone releases. Ugetsu is a 'jewel in the crown' film and will definitely be upgraded, but with The Life of Oharu released, Criterion basically has Mizoguchi's canon (as far as the West is concerned) all sewn up. I could imagine The Crucified Lovers and The Loyal 47 Ronin trickling out at a later date to flesh out his legacy, and a further Eclipse or two, however.

[Matt]

Crucified Lovers is actually the only Mizoguchi film I like. I know, I'm a cretin.

Not sure what other films you've seen, Matt.

Crucified Lovers, unlike Oharu, actually preserves some of the (sometimes cruel -- but not always) humor of the underlying source works (not just Chikamatsu but also Saikaku). Possibly because of this, despite all the ultimate tragedy, the work seems more balanced and the characters more believable than the Mizo norm.

Yes, I think this is what I appreciated about the film. It seemed vastly less stylized and distanced than the others I've seen (which includes everything MoC and Criterion have released). A long time ago (Criterion laserdisc era), before I had seen any Ozu or Naruse, I saw and liked Osaka Elegy. When I went back again to it recently, it paled in comparison to the contemporaneous films on similar themes by those two filmmakers. And in comparison to Shimizu's work, too.

Like you, I respect Mizoguchi and admire his long-take aesthetic. I just don't enjoy watching the films very much.

[swo17]

I could imagine The Crucified Lovers and The Loyal 47 Ronin trickling out at a later date to flesh out his legacy, and a further Eclipse or two, however.

I might expect to see Story of the Last Chrysanthemum in the mainline eventually as well. And if the world truly goes mad mad mad mad, Madame Yuki. [-o<

[Michael Kerpan]

My appreciation for Osaka Elegy actually went up last time I saw it -- but I still like comparable works of Ozu, Naruse and Shimizu more.

[Finch]

Count me in the "I find Mizoguchi much easier to admire than to truly love" camp, and those who count Crucified Lovers as their personal favourite, not least because the ending is bittersweet instead of utterly tragic and bleak. Ugetsu I also enjoy returning to regularly, and I remember liking Gion Bayashi a lot but his other films including Sansho the Bailiff (the lead's histrionic performance hurts the film) don't mean a great deal to me personally although I do concede that objectively they are very good or great.

[Michael Kerpan]

Glad to see so many Crucified Lovers fans here -- generally this has been rather overlooked (in the English-speaking world, at least). ;~}

I think that if one can eventually tune in to the "spirit of shimpa", one does begin to enjoy (most of) Mizoguchi's considerably more.

[Orlac]

I adored Yang Kwei Fei - was astonished Rayns didn't care for it much.

Makes one wish MOC or BFI would do some BDs of a few Shaw Brothers films - they remade YKF in the 60s after the Mizoguchi one destroyed one of their previous companies!

[TIVOLI]

I can now exhale. I just received a shipping notice from Amazon for the Mizoguchi set.

[cdnchris]

For others concerned I ordered it a week ago (after thinking I had already ordered it when it was announced) and got a shipping confirmation this morning.

[swo17]

In any case, with the release date now passed, Eureka is still selling this directly and Amazon shows it as in stock. For now, anyway.

[chatterjees]

Its getting really annoying now. My amazon account is showing "Preparing for Dispatch" for last 3 days. How many days does it take to ship? I hope they got it in stock. Its gonna take at least 2 more weeks to come to this side of the pond

[Donald Brown]

Its getting really annoying now. My amazon account is showing "Preparing for Dispatch" for last 3 days. How many days does it take to ship? I hope they got it in stock. Its gonna take at least 2 more weeks to come to this side of the pond

Did you order other things with it? If so, it could be something else in the order causing a hiccup. I placed a large order and have also been getting the 'preparing for dispatch' for the last couple of days. Having placed countless big orders from them before, I know this isn't cause for concern and the order will indeed ship soon.

[Emilio]

The box arrived here safe and sound as well. Number 0064 of 2000.

[Drucker]

The box arrived here safe and sound as well. Number 0064 of 2000.

And inquiring minds want to know: where is "here"?

[Berzeli]

Received my set (#47) in Sweden yesterday, no damage to anything which was really nice. Terrific box and book, now the only problem is that I lack a TV/projector at the moment, oh well...

[manicsounds]

Got #36, anyone any lower?