Éric Rohmer on DVD and BD

[Rupert Pupkin]

confirmation from someone who bought l'Intégrale that some movies are not in 1080p/24 for "The Moral Tales" : (which is immoral (sorry that was so easy)

Moral Tales :
1080i : Ma nuit chez Maud (with a little DNR touch (slight)

whereas some short movies are in 1080p/24 : Véronique et son cancre , Nadja à Paris...

my guess is that it has something to do with a TV channel (HDTV) collaboration.

So I will stay with "Comédies et Proverbes" and will [-o< for a Criterion blu upgrade of "The Moral Tales" :


I watched on videoprojector yesterday : l'ami de mon amie (1080p24) : a very nice picture quality and HD. Some fine grain, great color palettes from another ville nouvelle (Cergy Pontoise). And hu sorry but I just wanted to say that Sophie Renoir is - so the HD was very welcomed for this lovely girl...
you can check this web site (in French) about this city and this great Rohmer movie:
http://lamidemonamie.free.fr/cergy.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Zot!]

Thanks for that Rupert, not sure where you got your info, but is there any roundup of the films from the integral set that verifies the specifications of all the films? And when you say say 1080i do you mean 1080i/ 29.970 fps, or 1080i /25 fps? I have to sadly assume the second. This would also be an additional deterent to some US importers who can't play 25fps material.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Thanks for that Rupert, not sure where you got your info, but is there any roundup of the films from the integral set that verifies the specifications of all the films? And when you say say 1080i do you mean 1080i/ 29.970 fps, or 1080i /25 fps? I have to sadly assume the second. This would also be an additional deterent to some US importers who can't play 25fps material.

no- not for the moment. Not a full track-listing of movies which says what is in 1080p24 and what is in 1080i
I only (and will stay just with) "Comédies et Proverbes" - I don't get me wrong, I'm very happy with the blu-ray transfer I've seen so far (3 movies...)
(I just bought "Comédies et Proverbes" so I can only check the disks from this box set)

my blu-ray player automatically convert to 1080p a 1080i signal. So what I see on screen for info is "1080p" signal.
But someone who bought "L'intégrale" and wrote that "Ma Nuit Chez Maud" was in 1080i as well as "La Marquise d'O" : 1080i
(I asked him to specify what exactly it is 1080i ... sorry for the lack of technical precision. But one thing is sure; everything is not in 1080p24)


my guess is if that some movies are in 1080p24 such as "L'ami de mon amie" and "Les Nuits de la pleine lune" that is probably due to a deal/collaboration with a French TV channel for a HDTV broadcast.
But I do not buy some HDTV blu-ray.
I mean, that's argentic, that's Nestor Almendros, "Moral Tales" should have been in 1080p24.
But that's the same story : some French blu are released in 1080i in France and are available in 1080p24 in the UK or later in the US.

[Zot!]

Much appreciated Rupert. I do wonder when and if these films would make it to BD in another configuration. I assume the interlaced transfers likely are why Arrow wasn't happy with the masters. While I'm thankful for this exhaustive set regardless, I'm feeling doubtful that all the films will have another chance to make it to me, and I'm taking the plunge. If Criterion ever gets around to Moral Tales again, I'll just have to double dip on those.

[Zot!]

For those on the fence, this is the best I can find, from a Amazon review via Google Translate:

encoding
--------
For the " purists " of HD who swear by the 1080p/24 , know that the proposed 8 Blu- ray movies are encoded in 1080i50 : My Night at Maud , The Marquise of O , The Aviator's Wife , beautiful wedding , Pauline at the Beach , the green Ray , the tree the mayor and the Mediatheque and the appointment of Paris . That said, I want to say that the video quality is often excellent for these securities, after viewing diagonal can not notice anything obvious in " interlacing " . Positive : short films are restored for their proposed full HD ( Veronica and dunce, The Kreutzer Sonata , Nadja in Paris and Farmer Montfaucon ) .

[domino harvey]

Well, I'm glad to have this knowledge now before I actually ordered it. Looks like I've got to sadly sit this one out til another label picks it up and does it right. Too bad, it looked like such a great package at the outset

[MichaelB]

Presumably this makes several of the discs unplayable on many US setups?

[Zot!]

Presumably this makes several of the discs unplayable on many US setups?

I had mentioned that above. In all honesty though, while less than ideal, if you are a big fan, this might be as good as things get. First of all you get a number of films in 1080p 24 that are long OOP or have never been available in English speaking territories. Trying to piecemeal put together a definitive collection from the existing DVDs (especially if you are trying to avoid PAL) would likely cost you as much, if not more. If all you want are 6 Moral Tales, I can understand dissapointment, but if you are interested in the entirity of his output, this is still unbeatable, and if history sustains, will not be repeated.

[cinemartin]

Actually, if the above report is correct it looks like Maud is the only Moral Tale Ty will be interlaced. It looks to affect the Comedies and Proverbs series much more.

As you say, it unlikely that we will get this kind of release again in any other format. The majority seems to be progressive and there is a lot of material here. The casual fan will probably stay away but true Rohmer fans have a lot of soul searching to do!

[domino harvey]

I should say my decision is made easier by already having almost all of these titles on DVD from various countries!

[Zot!]

I should say my decision is made easier by already having almost all of these titles on DVD from various countries!

Yes, it is in no way a slam-dunk double dip. But, despite having seen ALL of these movies over the years through rentals, I don't own a single one, so this is a bit of a dream come true scenario for me.

[Zot!]

Yay, mine finally shipped from Amazon.Fr.

[Oedipax]

My bank's stupid fraud detection thing was triggered by the large amount charged to a foreign Amazon affiliate, so with that having been cleared up, I'm hoping mine ships tomorrow. Grr.

[Aunt Peg]

I received my box set today. I agree the package could/should have been better.

Most discs where intact properly in their cases with only 3 not. Only one disc has notable scratches with another two with some very minor scratching.

Just a couple of fingerprints.

As I checked each disc for this straight away it became quiet easy to place them back into the cases.

I am planning of watching everything over the Christmas break.

[Aunt Peg]

I couldn't resist checking out some of the Blu Rays.

Perceval, The Marquise of O, Boyfriends & Girlfriends and The Aviator's Wife are all far superior to the DVD's I have from the US & UK.

To my surprise The Aviator's Wife is 16x9!

I compared it to the Arrow DVD and found that some information is lost and the top and bottom of the frame but there is more information on the sides.

The Four Adventures of Reinette & Mirablle was very grainy as expected.

[onedimension]

Any murmurs of Region A companies doing Rohmer blus? I may finally go multi-region for these..

[zedz]

Any murmurs of Region A companies doing Rohmer blus? I may finally go multi-region for these..

I'm sure a number of the big titles will eventually come out in the UK and US (Moral Tales, Four Seasons etc.), but I'm just as sure that nobody else is going to tackle the complete works, and films like L'arbre, le maire et la mediatheque will probably continue to wallow in undeserved obscurity.

[Zot!]

Any murmurs of Region A companies doing Rohmer blus? I may finally go multi-region for these..

I'm sure a number of the big titles will eventually come out in the UK and US (Moral Tales, Four Seasons etc.), but I'm just as sure that nobody else is going to tackle the complete works, and films like L'arbre, le maire et la mediatheque will probably continue to wallow in undeserved obscurity.

Keep in mind that if you're going to go region free for this, you will want a player or screen that can handle or convert 1080i50 content. This is probably a good consideration regardless for maximum flexibility. Even if you exclude the DVD-only films and the interlaced content, you're only paying ~$16 per 1080p title, so this is a decent value if you're curious about more than the "hits".

[Fierias]

Can anyone comment on these reported aspect ratios of Pauline at the Beach and The Aviator's Wife? Especially framing the latter at 16x9 seems like sacrilege to me, but that's just an uninformed knee-jerk reaction; others probably know for sure whether these might be correct.

[Props55]

Not really sure about AVIATOR'S WIFE but as it was shot in 16mm I'd think 16x9 would be wrong. (Unless it was shot in Super-16)

PAULINE AT THE BEACH I saw on first U.S. release and I'm sure it was projected at 1.85. I believe Nestor Almendros has been quoted as approving this ratio and it looks OK to me. However I have the Arrow disc (1.85) and in the accompanying featurette the clips are 4x3 and I actually think it looks better that way. It was obviously designed to look good at both but I liked the extra context that the 4x3 image gave to the characters in their environment. Also it's a French movie and I liked seeing that cuisine on their plates!

Hey, check back a page or two and I believe GaryC has provided a complete listing of format/ratio for all Rohmer shorts, features and television/video productions!

[Zot!]

This trailer looks ok, but I don't know the movie well enough.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeVGekk23KY

[Rupert Pupkin]

Can anyone comment on these reported aspect ratios of Pauline at the Beach and The Aviator's Wife? Especially framing the latter at 16x9 seems like sacrilege to me, but that's just an uninformed knee-jerk reaction; others probably know for sure whether these might be correct.

Pauline à La Plage (blu-ray) is not in its theatrical ratio (was it 1:66 ?) - but instead 1:33 (so more frame on top and bottom) - I wrote about this earlier in my posts (I was suprised about this ratio), and I'm still wondering why they choose 1:33. Since there is no info about this in the bonus of the Potemkine Blu-Ray.
By the way, recently this movie has been broadcast on HDTV in 1:33 and Pauline is not in 1080p24 (perhaps this TV channel "collaboration" could explain this changed of ratio)

The Aviator's Wife (I did not see it in theatres) - to my eyes, the ratio of the blu-ray (I didn't check the DVDs) is something like 1:66.
Then again it's 1080i - but I was rather pleased with the quality of the transfer (color, etc...)

in Comédies and Proverbes, the 2 more stunning transfers are Les Nuits de la Pleine Lune (1:33 respected and 1080p24) and Pauline à la Plage.
The other from this box set are often excellent (I was really pleased with "L'ami de mon amie"), if not very good - "Le Rayon Vert" (don't expect "Eye-Red" type HD details on it, but the photography seems very well rendered in HD (color palette, texture of the movie, and some nice HD). (there are some screenshots of Les Nuits de la Pleine Lune on dvdclassik captures section as well as some screenshots of les Contes Moraux (La Collectionneuse)
I'm hoping that Criterion release les Contes Moraux on blu [-o< (I already own the Criterion DVD box set)

[GaryC]

Not really sure about AVIATOR'S WIFE but as it was shot in 16mm I'd think 16x9 would be wrong. (Unless it was shot in Super-16)

PAULINE AT THE BEACH I saw on first U.S. release and I'm sure it was projected at 1.85. I believe Nestor Almendros has been quoted as approving this ratio and it looks OK to me. However I have the Arrow disc (1.85) and in the accompanying featurette the clips are 4x3 and I actually think it looks better that way. It was obviously designed to look good at both but I liked the extra context that the 4x3 image gave to the characters in their environment. Also it's a French movie and I liked seeing that cuisine on their plates!

Hey, check back a page or two and I believe GaryC has provided a complete listing of format/ratio for all Rohmer shorts, features and television/video productions!

I have the Arrow DVD of Pauline and it's anamorphic 1.66:1. I didn't see that in the cinema but 1.66:1 is the OAR according to Nestor Almendros's book A Man with a Camera, making it the only Rohmer feature shot by Almendros not to be in 1.37:1, I believe it was shot open-matte though, so you could show it in 4:3.

The Aviator's Wife was shot in 16mm. Back at University I projected a 35mm print. Artificial Eye's reel cans said "1.33:1" on the labels and that's what I showed it in.

Presumably intentionally, as Props55 says, Rohmer's 4:3 features can be shown in 1.66:1 (no wider though) without being too unduly cropped as they're not too tightly composed. I suspect that was deliberate, as he and his DPs would certainly be aware that many cinemas could no longer show Academy Ratio. I saw The Green Ray on its UK cinema release and My Night at Maud's on its UK reissue in 1992 and both were shown in 1.66:1. I only noticed a couple of shots in each being cropped and I'm in no doubt that the majority of people in the audience wouldn't have noticed.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Not really sure about AVIATOR'S WIFE but as it was shot in 16mm I'd think 16x9 would be wrong. (Unless it was shot in Super-16)

PAULINE AT THE BEACH I saw on first U.S. release and I'm sure it was projected at 1.85. I believe Nestor Almendros has been quoted as approving this ratio and it looks OK to me. However I have the Arrow disc (1.85) and in the accompanying featurette the clips are 4x3 and I actually think it looks better that way. It was obviously designed to look good at both but I liked the extra context that the 4x3 image gave to the characters in their environment. Also it's a French movie and I liked seeing that cuisine on their plates!

Hey, check back a page or two and I believe GaryC has provided a complete listing of format/ratio for all Rohmer shorts, features and television/video productions!

I have the Arrow DVD of Pauline and it's anamorphic 1.66:1. I didn't see that in the cinema but 1.66:1 is the OAR according to Nestor Almendros's book A Man with a Camera, making it the only Rohmer feature shot by Almendros not to be in 1.37:1, I believe it was shot open-matte though, so you could show it in 4:3.

The Aviator's Wife was shot in 16mm. Back at University I projected a 35mm print. Artificial Eye's reel cans said "1.33:1" on the labels and that's what I showed it in.

Presumably intentionally, as Props55 says, Rohmer's 4:3 features can be shown in 1.66:1 (no wider though) without being too unduly cropped as they're not too tightly composed. I suspect that was deliberate, as he and his DPs would certainly be aware that many cinemas could no longer show Academy Ratio. I saw The Green Ray on its UK cinema release and My Night at Maud's on its UK reissue in 1992 and both were shown in 1.66:1. I only noticed a couple of shots in each being cropped and I'm in no doubt that the majority of people in the audience wouldn't have noticed.

yes I agree with you.

Here's my point of view. I don't think that Pauline à la Plage in 1:33 is a sacrilege since 1:33 was Rohmer's prefered ratio since years.
I was suprised with this change of ratio since this is not what I've read in Nestor's book. Moreover, I own an old DVD (French, which is in 1:66++ too) so the 1:33 was a surprised for me. And there is no explanation about this change of ratio in the box set.
Perhaps Rohmer would have leaved a note about changing the ratio of Pauline ?
I don't think so, he was not a "let's do a redux" man...

I saw "Les Nuits de la Pleine Lune" in theatres and it was projected in 1:33 as it was intended (I've always seen so far Pauline in 1:66 in theatres)
Les "Nuits de la pleine lune" came after Pauline, so even if in French theatres it was not easy to get a 1:33 projection they did project this film in 1:33 in theatres.
In Criterion box set "Moral Tales" there is this fantastic interview exclusive with Rohmer and Barbet Shroeder. He talks about the ratio, securing the 1:66; explaining that "beyond 1:66" the head/hair are "cut" and that it doesn't work. But Eric Rohmer said in this conversation with Barbet Shroeder that he saw "Le Genou de Claire" in theatres and at the French TV in 1:66 and he found that it looks "okay" and nice.
But in the end, Barbert reminds that with the DVD- now- it's possible to see the movie in its original ratio (1:33) and they were both happy that it is possible now to see in 1:33 "The Moral Tales" on DVD (Rohmer recognized that the picture quality of DVD was very pleasant and that he prefered for many reasons to watch DVDs at homer rather than going to cinema)

So perhaps Moral Tales have been projected in French theatres in 1:66 (it probably has been done), but I can't see Moral Tales in another ratio than 1:33. Just look at the opening of "La Collectionneuse"; how the picture is cut; it's done for 1:33
The "funny thing" is that when Elephant came out (Gus Van Sant) I saw it in theatres in 1:33, the sublime and gorgeous Wuthering Heights (Andrea Arnold) as well as Fish Tank in 1:33 too.
So now, the irony is that French theatres can project a movie in 1:33 and perhaps will do it more than in the past. Because 1:33 is "coming back" for some cinematographer (I also think about "Meek's Cutoff")

So, when it's blu-ray : I want the original ratio intended.
If they wanted to release an alternate ratio I would like to know why. and I also would like to have the theatrical ratio for Pauline à la Plage (1:66).
I'm happy to see these movies on blu-ray. But it's not the definitive box set.

[GaryC]

So now, the irony is that French theatres can project a movie in 1:33 and perhaps will do it more than in the past. Because 1:33 is "coming back" for some cinematographer (I also think about "Meek's Cutoff")

There's also the issue that DCP makes Academy Ratio more viable for cinemas to show than it would have been if they were projecting a 35mm print. All ratios are nowadays contained into 1.85:1 or thereabouts frame and either letterboxed for Scope films or pillarboxed for anything narrower. In the last month I've seen two new films in 1.37:1 (both in black and white too) - the US indie Computer Chess (which was deliberately shot on analogue video) and Ida (don't know if this was shot on film or digital-captured) and I've no doubt there will be more in the future. And that's not including reissues of older films - Gone With the Wind is in UK cinemas now.