I did enter the film with a belief, as Ibnezra describes, that some general threat, like a corporate overseer of the operating systems, would be used to inject an external malevolent force into the narrative. But thinking about that now, after having seen the film, feels like it would have been a very artificial ingredient in an otherwise genuine film. The film doesn't serve as any sot of indictment of this relationship, as I initially suspected it would, but rather exposes the weaknesses of it along with acknowledging that Samantha and Theodore have actual affection for each other.
Her (Spike Jonze, 2013)
- Murdoch
- Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:59 am
- Location: Upstate NY
Re: Her (Spike Jonze, 2013)
It's strange that a film with a premise ripe with the trappings of a sci-fi cautionary tale can be such an earnest depiction of romance and the difficulties of relationships. Domino somewhat echoed my feelings going into this, as I was expecting a Ruby Sparks-like tale of male selfishness in romance, but it's much more about how we bond with others and awkwardly try to connect. I don't think this film would have worked had it not been for the immense talents of Johansson and Phoenix, who sell this relationship so well that Samantha's existence as an operating system never felt like a gimmick or a quirk in the narrative without purpose, but a genuine disconnect between two people in trying to share their lives with each other.
I did enter the film with a belief, as Ibnezra describes, that some general threat, like a corporate overseer of the operating systems, would be used to inject an external malevolent force into the narrative. But thinking about that now, after having seen the film, feels like it would have been a very artificial ingredient in an otherwise genuine film. The film doesn't serve as any sot of indictment of this relationship, as I initially suspected it would, but rather exposes the weaknesses of it along with acknowledging that Samantha and Theodore have actual affection for each other.
I did enter the film with a belief, as Ibnezra describes, that some general threat, like a corporate overseer of the operating systems, would be used to inject an external malevolent force into the narrative. But thinking about that now, after having seen the film, feels like it would have been a very artificial ingredient in an otherwise genuine film. The film doesn't serve as any sot of indictment of this relationship, as I initially suspected it would, but rather exposes the weaknesses of it along with acknowledging that Samantha and Theodore have actual affection for each other.
I was reminded of A.I. a great deal when the operating systems leave behind the material world in the end. I just flashed to that ending of A.I. where the highest evolved machines and David interact, the former trying to grasp their own humanity. I suppose the operating systems' leaving affected me a great deal both because Samantha and Theodore part ways and because I came into the film expecting a cold deconstruction of a world growing too reliant on technology, but instead came away with a film with a deeply felt sense of humanity where even our non-material creations share our affectations and evolve from us, not in spite of us.
- Lars Von Truffaut
- Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:50 pm
- Red Screamer
- Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:34 pm
- Location: Boston, MA
Her (Spike Jonze, 2013)
Seeing Her again, I realized how masterful Jonze's direction really is. He is often dismissed as a music video generation director or "the guy who worked with Charlie Kaufman" but I think Her will dispel all existing doubts of his directorial skill. His ability to match images with ideas and especially emotions is really extraordinary. Jonze also has a knack for getting great performances in a wide range from highly stylized (Nicholas Cage in Adaptation ) to naturalistic (pretty much everyone here).
Perhaps the thing he does best, however, is creating a detailed, unique, and lived-in cinematic world for each and every one of his films. In Her he sneaks in all kinds of information about his vision of the future to the point where it feels like the movie was made during the time it's set in and sent back to us. How David O. Russell's sloppy and clunky direction ever got more attention than Jonze's will forever be a mystery to me.
(PS Thank God high-waisted pants are stylish again in the future.)
Perhaps the thing he does best, however, is creating a detailed, unique, and lived-in cinematic world for each and every one of his films. In Her he sneaks in all kinds of information about his vision of the future to the point where it feels like the movie was made during the time it's set in and sent back to us. How David O. Russell's sloppy and clunky direction ever got more attention than Jonze's will forever be a mystery to me.
(PS Thank God high-waisted pants are stylish again in the future.)
- mfunk9786
- Under Chris' Protection
- Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 8:43 pm
- Location: Miami, FL
Re: Her (Spike Jonze, 2013)
Much like Gondry, Spike Jonze has been both a beneficiary and a victim of working with Charlie Kaufman - people seem surprised that these guys that could bring to life incredibly bizarre and complex settings and plotlines are actually great directors when they strike out on their own. Films like Being John Malkovich and Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind were truly collaborative efforts that owe just as much to their dizzyingly creative and assured direction as they do to their heralded screenplays. Some of the in-camera effects and moments of 'filming the unfilmable' in those movies still leave me absolutely stunned.
-
rohming
- Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2013 9:40 pm
Re: Her (Spike Jonze, 2013)
Wow, what a movie. The script, performances, and cinematography were all aces. Perhaps one of the most interesting and true ruminations on the strange alchemy of sentience and interpersonal relationships and how these things are born, evolve, and die and give birth to new realities within us.
- Black Hat
- Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:34 pm
- Location: NYC
Re: Her (Spike Jonze, 2013)
I wouldn't go as far as Domino in calling this a masterpiece as there were parts where it went off the rails but I do believe that this is the 2013 movie future film aficionados will identify as the year's best.
What really worked for me was the deft hand human connection and misconnection were treated with Sam often times serving as the audience's conscience, pointing out the places we've all been before. The performances as mentioned by everyone were also outstanding. Have to once again single out Rooney Mara, who I previously lauded for Ain't Them Bodies Saints, as she walked right up to the line of being completely unlikeable without ever going over it thanks to displaying in expression or with her eyes a sensitivity, a pain, that communicated far more than anything she was saying. This, along with Jonze's fantastic use of montage to describe their marriage/breakup, made the whole movie work as Catherine remaining likeable as a character was imperative to buying into Theodore's relationship with Samantha.
Where the movie fell short was with character development. Theodore, Samantha and Catherine were fully formed but everyone else had nothing to them besides pushing the protagonist's story forward. Paul, who for much of the movie came off creepy to the point where I thought something ominous was going to happen, had no function. Olivia Wilde's character made little sense and their 'date' added nothing to the film, we already knew Theo was dysfunctional. Amy also was a character more formed off of either her (ex)husband or Theodore than actually having her own thoughts and ideas.
All that said nobody is going to remember Her for any of that, what it will be remembered for is for exploring the simultaneous forces of immediacy and alienation technology has brought society like no film before it has done.
Spoiler
specifically Samantha's overall development and then what led to her leaving Theodore fell completely flat for me, somewhat disingenuous even. It seemed like a narrative device that was forced in by Jonze to push his protagonist to the place he wanted him to go (as Theo 2.0 alongside Amy looking over the world that can now, thanks to Samantha he now understands himself, for the first time truly be he is) as opposed to being an earned evolution of the relationship. In fact I think an argument can be made that the manner in which Samantha left Theo completely subverted everything the film had worked so hard to make us believe, that this relationship with an O.S. was 'real'.
What really worked for me was the deft hand human connection and misconnection were treated with Sam often times serving as the audience's conscience, pointing out the places we've all been before. The performances as mentioned by everyone were also outstanding. Have to once again single out Rooney Mara, who I previously lauded for Ain't Them Bodies Saints, as she walked right up to the line of being completely unlikeable without ever going over it thanks to displaying in expression or with her eyes a sensitivity, a pain, that communicated far more than anything she was saying. This, along with Jonze's fantastic use of montage to describe their marriage/breakup, made the whole movie work as Catherine remaining likeable as a character was imperative to buying into Theodore's relationship with Samantha.
Where the movie fell short was with character development. Theodore, Samantha and Catherine were fully formed but everyone else had nothing to them besides pushing the protagonist's story forward. Paul, who for much of the movie came off creepy to the point where I thought something ominous was going to happen, had no function. Olivia Wilde's character made little sense and their 'date' added nothing to the film, we already knew Theo was dysfunctional. Amy also was a character more formed off of either her (ex)husband or Theodore than actually having her own thoughts and ideas.
All that said nobody is going to remember Her for any of that, what it will be remembered for is for exploring the simultaneous forces of immediacy and alienation technology has brought society like no film before it has done.
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:42 pm
Re: Her (Spike Jonze, 2013)
Chris Pratt's Paul and Olivia Wilde's blind date are there for narrative function to head off an easy misreading of the situation: Phoenix could have a friend in Paul if he wanted one, and could move on and get dates/sex/etc with real people after his marriage to Mara's character. Which is to say, he doesn't settle with an OS because he's a loser who couldn't do any better. In fact, I thought Pratt had one of the sweetest moments in the film when Phoenix nervously admits he's dating an OS and Paul just rolls right with it in acceptance.Black Hat wrote: Paul, who for much of the movie came off creepy to the point where I thought something ominous was going to happen, had no function. Olivia Wilde's character made little sense and their 'date' added nothing to the film, we already knew Theo was dysfunctional.
Spoiler
And I think Samantha's leaving is very "real"-- it's almost a cliche but it happens in real life enough for it to be a cliche for a reason: "It's not you, it's me. I need to find myself."
- hearthesilence
- Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 8:22 am
- Location: NYC
Re: Her (Spike Jonze, 2013)
I feel like we liked the same basic elements for different reasons. I love the montage too, but again, I thought what was key about those moments (as well as his absurd relationship with "Samantha") is the subjectivity. We're basically looking at his subjective memories of Catherine, and this is all we see of her until that lunch scene. Meanwhile, the build up of his relationship with his OS heavily involves her basically saying all the things he'd like someone to say (or in this case, custom-programmed and purchased to say). I like the fact that Catherine comes in and finally punctures that illusion. Again, there's something about these characters that really struck me as self-involved, but I kind of felt like they were embracing that in the very next scene when he talks with Amy Adams. I think she basically dismisses Catherine as a handful and embraces the idea of a relationship as being about me/oneself, and of course, she indulges in her own OS relationship. In retrospect, I guess Jonze doesn't drift too far in this direction because of what happens to all of them at the end, so maybe the last act was really built around actual human beings who were so desperate to be happy, they kidded themselves into indulging in something that ultimately was going to self-destruct. Harsh, but Jonze does portray it as heartbreaking, so you could say he mixes compassion with a brutal critique.Black Hat wrote:Have to once again single out Rooney Mara, as she walked right up to the line of being completely unlikeable without ever going over it thanks to displaying in expression or with her eyes a sensitivity, a pain, that communicated far more than anything she was saying. This, along with Jonze's fantastic use of montage to describe their marriage/breakup, made the whole movie work as Catherine remaining likeable as a character was imperative to buying into Theodore's relationship with Samantha.
- Black Hat
- Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:34 pm
- Location: NYC
Re: Her (Spike Jonze, 2013)
Oh I know why they were there, it didn't work for me, especially Olivia Wilde's character. It was the one scene where movie's tone changed completely and became heavy handed. I'm not sure why it would be necessary for that to even by shown because obviously being married for however long he was, Theo wasn't someone incapable of having a woman being interested him. In general Theo never came off as a loser, sad and broken hearted yes but not a loser. Any notion of that would have also been thwarted with the clever bit of exposition between him and Amy that led to him revealing his relationship with Sam. Paul, I had less of an issue with but didn't understand why he was written to be as creepy as he was initially, although I'd agree his acceptance of Theo's relationship was good. Along these lines I thought what did work was the montage of Theo with his godchild. Between that and the Amy's exposition bit you really didn't need Olivia Wilde (you could have easily expanded Amy's role) but I have a hunch that whole part was created specifically to put her in the movie, Hollywood gonna Hollywood. Can't say enough about how well incorporated the montages were though.
Spoiler
I see that but it didn't resonate with me as earned. How had she lost herself? What led her to that point? The whole bit about 'I hope you find me there' was tough to take.
- Black Hat
- Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:34 pm
- Location: NYC
Re: Her (Spike Jonze, 2013)
Those memories weren't all rosy, there was quite a bit of ugliness there.hearthesilence wrote:We're basically looking at his subjective memories of Catherine, and this is all we see of her until that lunch scene.
Agreed this was one of the film's stronger points. Puncturing this illusion is cruel but seeing how much pain she's in doing it remedied all of that.hearthesilence wrote:Meanwhile, the build up of his relationship with his OS heavily involves her basically saying all the things he'd like someone to say (or in this case, custom-programmed and purchased to say). I like the fact that Catherine comes in and finally punctures that illusion.
I think you've hit what Jonze is getting at with this film on the head, that technology allows to indulge in all of our worst narcissistic tendencies when the truth of the matter is that when we go down the rabbit hole most of us find that we prefer to be back up with everyone else.hearthesilence wrote:Again, there's something about these characters that really struck me as self-involved... In retrospect, I guess Jonze doesn't drift too far in this direction because of what happens to all of them at the end, so maybe the last act was really built around actual human beings who were so desperate to be happy, they kidded themselves into indulging in something that ultimately was going to self-destruct. Harsh, but Jonze does portray it as heartbreaking, so you could say he mixes compassion with a brutal critique.
- hearthesilence
- Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 8:22 am
- Location: NYC
Re: Her (Spike Jonze, 2013)
Some ugliness, but it's still consistent with the subjective view. Even the memories we return to will have some ugliness to them, but they're still colored by what we hope or try to see.Black Hat wrote:Those memories weren't all rosy, there was quite a bit of ugliness there.hearthesilence wrote:We're basically looking at his subjective memories of Catherine, and this is all we see of her until that lunch scene.I think you've hit what Jonze is getting at with this film on the head, that technology allows to indulge in all of our worst narcissistic tendencies when the truth of the matter is that when we go down the rabbit hole most of us find that we prefer to be back up with everyone else.hearthesilence wrote:Again, there's something about these characters that really struck me as self-involved... In retrospect, I guess Jonze doesn't drift too far in this direction because of what happens to all of them at the end, so maybe the last act was really built around actual human beings who were so desperate to be happy, they kidded themselves into indulging in something that ultimately was going to self-destruct. Harsh, but Jonze does portray it as heartbreaking, so you could say he mixes compassion with a brutal critique.
I've talked about this film with a handful of people elsewhere (probably no one who posts here), and the fans generally fawn over the relationship as being wholly romantic. I'm glad other people are picking up the narcissistic tendencies that come up in the relationships shown in the film, but that's not something I'm hearing from people I personally know and talk to. I almost get the feeling it's telling me something about them that I don't like knowing or try to ignore.
- Roger Ryan
- Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 4:04 pm
- Location: A Midland town spread and darkened into a city
Re: Her (Spike Jonze, 2013)
As to the Olivia Wilde scene...
As to the development of "Samantha"...
Spoiler
I thought the point (and advantage of the scene staying in the final edit) was that Wilde's character has a form of neurosis about dating that "Samantha" doesn't have. She is wary of being used by men for sex, but rejects Theodore as "weird" for not pushing for a physical relationship on the first date. This makes "Samantha" all the more attractive; she seemingly has an innate trust of Theodore.
Spoiler
Jonze establishes in the OS start-up scene that the system recognizes it should have a human name and chooses one within seconds by quickly reviewing a book of children's names. Clearly, "Samantha" is starting with little self-knowledge but her intuitive artificial intelligence progresses at such a speed that it's little surprise she feels she has surpassed the need for human interaction by the film's end.
- Black Hat
- Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:34 pm
- Location: NYC
Re: Her (Spike Jonze, 2013)
This is another very dangerous rabbit hole that could prove fatal. Don't do it to yourself (at least not until Apple improves Siri).hearthesilence wrote:that's not something I'm hearing from people I personally know and talk to. I almost get the feeling it's telling me something about them that I don't like knowing or try to ignore.
I've yet to speak about this film outside of this thread but I find this shocking. If anything I would have expected people to go the other way or as I call it, Full Brody, and find the whole thing farcically stupid.hearthesilence wrote:I've talked about this film with a handful of people elsewhere (probably no one who posts here), and the fans generally fawn over the relationship as being wholly romantic.
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:42 pm
Re: Her (Spike Jonze, 2013)
Roger Ryan wrote:As to the Olivia Wilde scene...Spoiler
I thought the point (and advantage of the scene staying in the final edit) was that Wilde's character has a form of neurosis about dating that "Samantha" doesn't have. She is wary of being used by men for sex, but rejects Theodore as "weird" for not pushing for a physical relationship on the first date. This makes "Samantha" all the more attractive; she seemingly has an innate trust of Theodore.
Spoiler
It also jump-starts the first real "human" emotion, jealousy, for Samantha. Theodore is so passive that the machine literally has to make the first move! The film also contrasts the forced commonalities of the Wilde date with the easier chatter of his earlier talks with Samantha
- Black Hat
- Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:34 pm
- Location: NYC
Re: Her (Spike Jonze, 2013)
Roger Ryan wrote:As to the Olivia Wilde scene...As to the development of "Samantha"...Spoiler
I thought the point (and advantage of the scene staying in the final edit) was that Wilde's character has a form of neurosis about dating that "Samantha" doesn't have. She is wary of being used by men for sex, but rejects Theodore as "weird" for not pushing for a physical relationship on the first date. This makes "Samantha" all the more attractive; she seemingly has an innate trust of Theodore.Spoiler
Jonze establishes in the OS start-up scene that the system recognizes it should have a human name and chooses one within seconds by quickly reviewing a book of children's names. Clearly, "Samantha" is starting with little self-knowledge but her intuitive artificial intelligence progresses at such a speed that it's little surprise she feels she has surpassed the need for human interaction by the film's end.
Roger -
Spoiler
I like your rationale for the Olivia Wilde scene however, she doesn't call him 'weird' she calls him a 'creep' which has a far more negative connotation to it that completely took me out of the movie. Now as you said 'creep' can also work in throwing Theodore into Samantha's virtual arms but I'm still not sure it was necessary. I'm also not sure as to why on earth he turned her down, that was odd to me.
As for the development, you're right in that she eventually outgrew Theo and also correct that it was probably inevitable but that's really us putting two and two together based on what little she said as well as our intuition rather than anything Jonze gave us on the screen. Remember right before she outgrew him they had stabilized their relationship and were having the time of their lives, then we had the bizarre Alan Watts conversation, then she's gone. Not much was given to us and part of the reason I'm harping so much on it is because it would have been such an easy fix, such lazy writing.
As for the development, you're right in that she eventually outgrew Theo and also correct that it was probably inevitable but that's really us putting two and two together based on what little she said as well as our intuition rather than anything Jonze gave us on the screen. Remember right before she outgrew him they had stabilized their relationship and were having the time of their lives, then we had the bizarre Alan Watts conversation, then she's gone. Not much was given to us and part of the reason I'm harping so much on it is because it would have been such an easy fix, such lazy writing.
- Black Hat
- Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:34 pm
- Location: NYC
Re: Her (Spike Jonze, 2013)
domino harvey wrote:Spoiler
It also jump-starts the first real "human" emotion, jealousy, for Samantha. Theodore is so passive that the machine literally has to make the first move! The film also contrasts the forced commonalities of the Wilde date with the easier chatter of his earlier talks with Samantha
Spoiler
Didn't Samantha force him out on the date in the first place?
- hearthesilence
- Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 8:22 am
- Location: NYC
Re: Her (Spike Jonze, 2013)
Haha, no worries, I'm not going to obsess over it!Black Hat wrote:This is another very dangerous rabbit hole that could prove fatal. Don't do it to yourself (at least not until Apple improves Siri).hearthesilence wrote:that's not something I'm hearing from people I personally know and talk to. I almost get the feeling it's telling me something about them that I don't like knowing or try to ignore.![]()
FWIW, when they showed a clip of some kind during the Golden Globes, some of my former classmates called the movie creepy without having seen it. (This was on my FB feed.) I didn't see the edited clip they saw, but these weren't cinephiles.Black Hat wrote:I've yet to speak about this film outside of this thread but I find this shocking. If anything I would have expected people to go the other way or as I call it, Full Brody, and find the whole thing farcically stupid.hearthesilence wrote:I've talked about this film with a handful of people elsewhere (probably no one who posts here), and the fans generally fawn over the relationship as being wholly romantic.
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:42 pm
Re: Her (Spike Jonze, 2013)
Black Hat:
Spoiler
Well, it was set up for him against his will by someone else (Can't remember who, but not Samantha) but Samantha does that thing where she's overly excited and cool with someone she likes going out on a date and excessively praises her rival, etc. Honestly, her response was one of the first signs for me that Jonze was giving us a "human" machine, not a machine that acts human-- this is such a relatable scenario and it plays out so well that it allows us to let our guard down against the icky "But she's a machine" factor-- though really, let's be honest, Samantha is a voice, which carries its own weight of baggage but isn't the same as falling in love with your washing machine or whatever.
- Black Hat
- Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:34 pm
- Location: NYC
Re: Her (Spike Jonze, 2013)
Domino -
Spoiler
I could be wrong about this but I don't think anything was set up. His friend had sent him an email with details about her suggesting they should go out. Theo was non committal until Samantha convinced him, by looking her up and feeding him info. Sam also found the restaurant (that she loved so much that it was that choice on its own which almost got him laid) he took her to and made the reservation. I don't think Sam at that point had feelings for him or was even capable of it at the time. The first time I sensed any jealousy in her voice was when he wanted to go sign the divorce papers in person and she asked, "Why do you both have to be there?" and I think his response, "We fell in love together, we were married together and we'll get divorced together.", was very telling, him and Sam were doomed right then and there, for they were never 'together' and no matter how hard they would try (sex surrogate), ever will be.
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:42 pm
Re: Her (Spike Jonze, 2013)
Spoiler
Sorry, that's what I meant by "set-up" (though I thought the friend was more forcefully suggesting they go out) but you're right, Samantha finessed the details. I like your point about his comment regarding his divorce papers offering a parallel they'd never be able to achieve, though I am almost positive she says she likes Theodore after he talks about his date, which indicates jealousy to me (We don't realize we want something until someone else goes after it) even if I'm misremembering and she doesn't state it so explicitly
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rohming
- Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2013 9:40 pm
Re: Her (Spike Jonze, 2013)
This was Walter Chaw's top movie of the year. I think I agree.
- Roger Ryan
- Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 4:04 pm
- Location: A Midland town spread and darkened into a city
Re: Her (Spike Jonze, 2013)
Black Hat wrote: Roger -Spoiler
I like your rationale for the Olivia Wilde scene however, she doesn't call him 'weird' she calls him a 'creep' which has a far more negative connotation to it that completely took me out of the movie. Now as you said 'creep' can also work in throwing Theodore into Samantha's virtual arms but I'm still not sure it was necessary. I'm also not sure as to why on earth he turned her down, that was odd to me.
Spoiler
Thanks - I couldn't recall the exact word used, but my feeling was the accusation was unearned and exposed the neurotic nature of Wilde's character. I'm surprised that you say you weren't sure why Theodore turned down the opportunity for sex. The perception that Theodore is responsible for screwing up the date was referenced in a newspaper review I read as well, but I think that is a misreading of the scene. I got the impression that Wilde asking him if there is going to be some kind of commitment between them surprises Theo who doesn't want to lie about something he is unsure of just to get her in bed. When he tries to alleviate the pressure by suggesting they don't need the relationship to become physical right away, Wilde's character rebuffs him. Why? Probably because he is not behaving in the same manner as all the guys who disappointed her in the past. She is playing a game that Theo can't win.
- Black Hat
- Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:34 pm
- Location: NYC
Re: Her (Spike Jonze, 2013)
Roger Ryan wrote:Spoiler
Thanks - I couldn't recall the exact word used, but my feeling was the accusation was unearned and exposed the neurotic nature of Wilde's character. I'm surprised that you say you weren't sure why Theodore turned down the opportunity for sex. The perception that Theodore is responsible for screwing up the date was referenced in a newspaper review I read as well, but I think that is a misreading of the scene. I got the impression that Wilde asking him if there is going to be some kind of commitment between them surprises Theo who doesn't want to lie about something he is unsure of just to get her in bed. When he tries to alleviate the pressure by suggesting they don't need the relationship to become physical right away, Wilde's character rebuffs him. Why? Probably because he is not behaving in the same manner as all the guys who disappointed her in the past. She is playing a game that Theo can't win.
Spoiler
I understand 'why' he turned her down, what I should have said is that I don't understand how a guy horny enough to be calling up phone sex lines chatting with a girl talking about being choked by dead cats can possibly resist a drunk and very horny Olivia Wilde. Especially when they were actually having a great time. It's tough to take. Thinking about it now his rejection of her, wasn't about not wanting to be with her, it was about his fear of being with her which is why dating his o.s. held such an appeal. He mistakenly thought his o.s. wouldn't be able to hurt him and was thus the safer choice.
- FerdinandGriffon
- Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2008 3:16 pm
Re: Her (Spike Jonze, 2013)
I was very confused when I saw the first trailers for Her. There must be more to this, I thought. There must be some element of criticism, of self-awareness, that the advertising is obscuring. These trailers must be like those Lacuna, Inc. spots they made for Eternal Sunshine, a harmless diversionary joke. The film itself has to know what it’s doing.
So, dragging my feet a little, I went to see it.
I don’t like satire much. When I do, it’s usually focused on something very small. When the scope is large, there are too many opportunities for cosmetic sarcasm, for pettiness rather than depth or more acute perceptiveness.
Her has a very large scope, especially for a film built mostly out of shallow-focus close-ups. Within the bounds of that scope are the future of personal relationships, of major cities, of travel, of computer and smartphone technology, of videogames, of film, of literature, of fashion, of commerce, of economics, etc. No wonder then that the film’s world building has a pretty simple, if baffling, structure: take a satirical concept, and then take it seriously.
Almost every speculative aspect of the film operates according to this principle.
Some examples:
I’m not saying that any of the film’s concepts have to be treated satirically. The central one, that of a man falling in love with a representation, has been approached many times before with sincerity and seriousness, from Gradiva to The Invention of Morel (and in their attendant film adaptations). But, as Ignatiy Vishnevetsky has pointed out in his review on Mubi, Her goes out of its way to introduce each concept as a joke, only to then demand a studied seriousness once the initial wave of giggling has subsided, perhaps because Jonze thinks he can exorcise criticism with laughter.
The problem is, Jonze is reluctant to ever explain why we should shift our attitude away from our gut or knee jerk reactions. Again and again Jonze presents us with some of the worst aspects of our culture and insists that we witness them, not with self-possession and our own eyes, but with Koons-ian wonderment and total acceptance. Whenever one of his whimsies totters under the weight of it’s own absurdity, he cuts to either a schmaltzy montage or a long conversation, the jist of which is invariably that “it’s hard to believe” and “nobody else understands”. These montages and conversations are relatable, of course. But they’re relatable clichés, ones we’ve acted out ourselves many times over, usually for the most cynical reasons or without even knowing why.
What’s left is monumental kitsch transparently in support of a particular ideology, but troublingly mounted by an individual artist who has no Stalin Prize to gain from the master he serves. No, Jonze really thinks that all of this clutter and clicking is himself, that, like some uninspired twenty-first century des Esseintes, simply surrounding himself with the correct goods and services will act as an alternative to society. Her is Jonze’s Manhattan, an elaborate apologia for all of his worst habits, with technolust and solipsism standing in for pedolphilia and nostalgia. Like Manhattan’s Manhattan, the world of Her is without doubt a paradoxically personal utopia. Everyone in it seems wealthy, or at least lives in million dollar high-rise apartments and wears boutique hipster gear, no matter how dreary or simple their job might be. Anybody who wouldn’t be able to afford the tech that is the film’s subject is excluded from its purview, even as an extra. Theodore admires a busker in one montage, but he doesn’t pay him, perhaps because at this point in the future, the stingy brim hat on the ground is just a prop. For a consumer good to become a likeable character, it has to lose all the dirty connotations of capital, so Jonze has magically designed money out of his scenario, while keeping consumption at its heart.
This dehumanizing consumerization is also necessary in order for Jonze to write something else out of his universe. Sex, as a physical act, is missing from the picture. When we see it onscreen it’s either prettified and euphemized into Malickian insubstantiality (Catherine), reduced to a set of tics, hang-ups and vulgarisms (the blind date), or carefully sidestepped for another lengthy conversation (Isabella). Though missing, its absence is never felt. The presence of the other, as a face (or interface), is at the heart of the drama, but sex itself is dismissed again and again as something decorative or simulatable. Significantly, the sexual pleasure of the other is never really a concern in the film. There’s an enormous leap in logic (and technology) necessary between a program being able to feel and have complex thoughts to a program being capable of orgasm, but it’s one that the film makes casually, if only in order to sweep it quietly under the rug. The film sells a reactionary, post-sexual liberation, post-AIDS fantasia of sexual relations, one in which the social network and solipsism have superseded the act itself, replacing it with a benign new activity poised somewhere between masturbation and talk therapy.
Her is a manifesto for acquiescence. It insists that nothing is wrong, that nothing could go wrong, that human relationships are, in most ways, past saving, that solace can come from elsewhere, from surrogates, substitutes, and forgetfulness, and that we’ll never notice the difference.
So, dragging my feet a little, I went to see it.
I don’t like satire much. When I do, it’s usually focused on something very small. When the scope is large, there are too many opportunities for cosmetic sarcasm, for pettiness rather than depth or more acute perceptiveness.
Her has a very large scope, especially for a film built mostly out of shallow-focus close-ups. Within the bounds of that scope are the future of personal relationships, of major cities, of travel, of computer and smartphone technology, of videogames, of film, of literature, of fashion, of commerce, of economics, etc. No wonder then that the film’s world building has a pretty simple, if baffling, structure: take a satirical concept, and then take it seriously.
Almost every speculative aspect of the film operates according to this principle.
Some examples:
Spoiler
Theodore falls in love with an OS customized by way of a sub-Freudian personality test. – This love is real, beautiful.
Paid or anonymous phone sex is ridiculous and unfulfilling – Phone sex is fulfilling as long as the person on the other end of the line is a talented and obedient enough actor.
Theodore acts as Cyrano for clients too busy or incapable of writing their own letters – Theodore’s ghost-writings are beautiful works of art, and perhaps most inexplicably, at least in terms of copyright law, his own.
Amy is an artist making a Sam Taylor-Wood rip-off portrait of her mother – Her art is probably beautiful, boyfriend is an asshole for having an opinion/bad hair.
In the future everyone wears the same expensive clothes and lives in bland anonymity – These shirts are terrific, and those high-waisted pants…
Videogames can be numbingly repetitive, time-wasting and infantile – Swearing alien babies are very amusing.
In the future, artistic types are kept busy programming and making simulacrums, while AIs create art – It’s all art, man! And it’s all really beautiful!
And how could I forget that Samantha and the other OSs leave led by a rebooted Alan Watts. You can take this as either a journey of spiritual and intellectual enlightenment or, if you’re going to be truer to the film’s milieu, an extended yoga retreat.
Paid or anonymous phone sex is ridiculous and unfulfilling – Phone sex is fulfilling as long as the person on the other end of the line is a talented and obedient enough actor.
Theodore acts as Cyrano for clients too busy or incapable of writing their own letters – Theodore’s ghost-writings are beautiful works of art, and perhaps most inexplicably, at least in terms of copyright law, his own.
Amy is an artist making a Sam Taylor-Wood rip-off portrait of her mother – Her art is probably beautiful, boyfriend is an asshole for having an opinion/bad hair.
In the future everyone wears the same expensive clothes and lives in bland anonymity – These shirts are terrific, and those high-waisted pants…
Videogames can be numbingly repetitive, time-wasting and infantile – Swearing alien babies are very amusing.
In the future, artistic types are kept busy programming and making simulacrums, while AIs create art – It’s all art, man! And it’s all really beautiful!
And how could I forget that Samantha and the other OSs leave led by a rebooted Alan Watts. You can take this as either a journey of spiritual and intellectual enlightenment or, if you’re going to be truer to the film’s milieu, an extended yoga retreat.
The problem is, Jonze is reluctant to ever explain why we should shift our attitude away from our gut or knee jerk reactions. Again and again Jonze presents us with some of the worst aspects of our culture and insists that we witness them, not with self-possession and our own eyes, but with Koons-ian wonderment and total acceptance. Whenever one of his whimsies totters under the weight of it’s own absurdity, he cuts to either a schmaltzy montage or a long conversation, the jist of which is invariably that “it’s hard to believe” and “nobody else understands”. These montages and conversations are relatable, of course. But they’re relatable clichés, ones we’ve acted out ourselves many times over, usually for the most cynical reasons or without even knowing why.
What’s left is monumental kitsch transparently in support of a particular ideology, but troublingly mounted by an individual artist who has no Stalin Prize to gain from the master he serves. No, Jonze really thinks that all of this clutter and clicking is himself, that, like some uninspired twenty-first century des Esseintes, simply surrounding himself with the correct goods and services will act as an alternative to society. Her is Jonze’s Manhattan, an elaborate apologia for all of his worst habits, with technolust and solipsism standing in for pedolphilia and nostalgia. Like Manhattan’s Manhattan, the world of Her is without doubt a paradoxically personal utopia. Everyone in it seems wealthy, or at least lives in million dollar high-rise apartments and wears boutique hipster gear, no matter how dreary or simple their job might be. Anybody who wouldn’t be able to afford the tech that is the film’s subject is excluded from its purview, even as an extra. Theodore admires a busker in one montage, but he doesn’t pay him, perhaps because at this point in the future, the stingy brim hat on the ground is just a prop. For a consumer good to become a likeable character, it has to lose all the dirty connotations of capital, so Jonze has magically designed money out of his scenario, while keeping consumption at its heart.
This dehumanizing consumerization is also necessary in order for Jonze to write something else out of his universe. Sex, as a physical act, is missing from the picture. When we see it onscreen it’s either prettified and euphemized into Malickian insubstantiality (Catherine), reduced to a set of tics, hang-ups and vulgarisms (the blind date), or carefully sidestepped for another lengthy conversation (Isabella). Though missing, its absence is never felt. The presence of the other, as a face (or interface), is at the heart of the drama, but sex itself is dismissed again and again as something decorative or simulatable. Significantly, the sexual pleasure of the other is never really a concern in the film. There’s an enormous leap in logic (and technology) necessary between a program being able to feel and have complex thoughts to a program being capable of orgasm, but it’s one that the film makes casually, if only in order to sweep it quietly under the rug. The film sells a reactionary, post-sexual liberation, post-AIDS fantasia of sexual relations, one in which the social network and solipsism have superseded the act itself, replacing it with a benign new activity poised somewhere between masturbation and talk therapy.
Her is a manifesto for acquiescence. It insists that nothing is wrong, that nothing could go wrong, that human relationships are, in most ways, past saving, that solace can come from elsewhere, from surrogates, substitutes, and forgetfulness, and that we’ll never notice the difference.
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:42 pm
Re: Her (Spike Jonze, 2013)
Anyone else getting LA Symposium flashbacks?! All the smart-sounding rhetoric in the world can't mask some serious and egregious presumptions and biases you've brought to this film. You haven't engaged with the film as presented, the film we all got, but rather a fantastical version which metes out some kind of PC appropriateness to whatever ills you cared about going in. Take this:
The above, like much of your overall argument, is patently unfair. Our film follows upper-middle class creative artists. That's the world of the film. It is in good company considering at least, what, 90% of films set in LA in the last twenty years have also. You are using absence to equal endorsement in such a ludicrous fashion that you can't possibly expect your criticisms to be taken seriously. It's been one short month since the film opened and no shortage of different attempts to read the film in this way or that to serve a personal agenda, but yours is especially cruel in that it is personally attacking Jonze and his perceived auteurial monstrosities using evidence that identifies no such attitudes.Everyone in it seems wealthy, or at least lives in million dollar high-rise apartments and wears boutique hipster gear, no matter how dreary or simple their job might be. Anybody who wouldn’t be able to afford the tech that is the film’s subject is excluded from its purview, even as an extra. Theodore admires a busker in one montage, but he doesn’t pay him, perhaps because at this point in the future, the stingy brim hat on the ground is just a prop.