Criterion & Eclipse Cover Art & Packaging Babble-on Vol. 6

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#976 Post by **Jeff** » Thu Feb 20, 2014 3:18 am

Yaanu wrote:
swo17 wrote:That is of course a reference to how Red River was the third Western ever made, after The Covered Wagon and Cimarron.
That's what I was thinking, but Stagecoach was made in 1939. So either they forgot history, they hoped that people forgot about Stagecoach, or it's something else entirely.

Swo's just yanking your chain (I think!). There were hundreds of Westerns prior to Red River.

adavis53 · #977 Post by **adavis53** » Thu Feb 20, 2014 4:15 am

Jeff wrote:
Yaanu wrote:
swo17 wrote:That is of course a reference to how Red River was the third Western ever made, after The Covered Wagon and Cimarron.
That's what I was thinking, but Stagecoach was made in 1939. So either they forgot history, they hoped that people forgot about Stagecoach, or it's something else entirely.
Swo's just yanking your chain (I think!). There were hundreds of Westerns prior to Red River.

I think that's what the poster is actually implying. The Covered Wagon was one of the most popular westerns of its era and one of, if not the, biggest films of that year and Cimarron went on to win the Best Picture Academy Award in its year (and be nominated in all of the Big Five as well as some others, I believe). I think the poster is trying to situate the film in between the two as being both wildly crowd pleasing and critically acclaimed.

naersjoen · #978 Post by **naersjoen** » Thu Feb 20, 2014 1:23 pm

domino harvey wrote:They commissioned the great artwork for Like Someone in Love and that's what ends up on the cover?

It may be unlikely these days, but has the possibility of a slip cover release with the still on the outside, and the artwork on the inside, or vice versa (think The Royal Tenenbaums DVD release) been ruled out?

#979 Post by **mfunk9786** » Thu Feb 20, 2014 2:55 pm

I'd say there's pretty much no chance of that happening. The only reason for those slipcovers was because Disney demanded it.

#980 Post by **zedz** » Thu Feb 20, 2014 6:43 pm

And, once again, that's not artwork you can use to promote the film. It's a (fairly sophisticated) joke, for heaven's sake. When you see the film you'll understand.

I'm trying to think of an analogy, but it's difficult. Maybe if you had a Citizen Kane cover in which it was somehow revealed that 'Rosebud'

Spoiler

was also the name Kane's stepfather used when he sexually molested Charles

.

warren oates · #981 Post by **warren oates** » Thu Feb 20, 2014 6:50 pm

zedz wrote:It's a (fairly sophisticated) joke, for heaven's sake. When you see the film you'll understand.

What's the joke?

FerdinandGriffon · Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:12 pm

Never mind that it's an ugly illustration that would hardly be an improvement of the still. I don't like the poster much but it seems like an obvious choice over a quickie Powerpoint job.

#983 Post by **zedz** » Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:28 pm

warren oates wrote:
zedz wrote:It's a (fairly sophisticated) joke, for heaven's sake. When you see the film you'll understand.
What's the joke?

Spoiler

The entire film revolves around the ambiguity of what happens, or doesn't, on that particular night. Creating a cover that resolves that ambiguity definitively by depicting a scene that not only doesn't appear in the film but is consciously withheld for very deliberate reasons, is a conceptual joke. It's an elaborate arthouse extrapolation of cover art which gives away a film's big twist, but this 'cover' would take it that much further.

warren oates · #984 Post by **warren oates** » Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:44 pm

What I thought you were going to say. Not really clever or a joke. And a single still image like that wouldn't necessarily resolve any of the ambiguity:

Spoiler

Most professor types I know enjoy curling up with a good pre- or post-coital tome. Just like most of them don't sleep on top of the covers with all their clothes on. And for all we know this quiet single moment is exactly how he got off. Some kind of low-key sexless granpda bedtime story roleplay. Who could really say what happened before or after this?

Still, I don't get the absolute hatred being heaped on the real cover. Consideration of font selection and placement aside, Criterion chose an image that actually feels like the film in all its pervy ambiguity and awkwardness. Whereas the theatrical posters -- that urban ennui, loneliness and mystery of the girl in her taxi -- felt more like a misrepresentation of the film to me once I'd seen it.

#985 Post by **zedz** » Thu Feb 20, 2014 8:46 pm

warren oates wrote:What I thought you were going to say. Not really clever or a joke. And a single still image like that wouldn't necessarily resolve any of the ambiguity:
Spoiler
Most professor types I know enjoy curling up with a good pre- or post-coital tome. Just like most of them don't sleep on top of the covers with all their clothes on. And for all we know this quiet single moment is exactly how he got off. Some kind of low-key sexless granpda bedtime story roleplay. Who could really say what happened before or after this?

Well, not necessarily, but it does take an awful big bite out of that crucial ambiguity and is just as misleading, misrepresentative and counterproductive as a cover which depicted

Spoiler

granddad humping the comatose girl.

I don't think the image itself is a joke, but the idea of using it as a DVD cover can only work as a joke.

Perhaps a better analogy than the first one I offered: Imagine a complete box set of The Sopranos that came with a cover of a bunch of characters standing around the grave of Tony Soprano. Carmela has her arm in a sling, Meadow is sitting in a wheelchair drooling, and Finn is sporting a nifty 'Members Only' jacket. Sure, you could speculate that this scene takes place ten years after the series ends, that Tony died peacefully in his sleep after eating an entire cow, Carmela broke her arm trying to roll his body over in the bed, Meadow had a tragic ice skating accident several years earlier and Finn has just happened to join some club that he's really, really proud of. But is that really what such a cover implies? And why would anybody with the slightest understanding of the show decide to use that kind of cover in the first place?

FerdinandGriffon · Thu Feb 20, 2014 8:52 pm

zedz wrote:Finn has just happened to join some club that he's really, really proud of.

Actually, Members Only jackets don't have anything to do with clubs. Any old schmuck can wear them.

#987 Post by **zedz** » Thu Feb 20, 2014 11:36 pm

FerdinandGriffon wrote:
zedz wrote:Finn has just happened to join some club that he's really, really proud of.
Actually, Members Only jackets don't have anything to do with clubs. Any old schmuck can wear them.

My God, does this also mean that David Puddy wasn't really a Magic 8 Ball?

FerdinandGriffon · Thu Feb 20, 2014 11:43 pm

I hate to break it to ya.

Bando · #989 Post by **Bando** » Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:59 am

zedz wrote:
FerdinandGriffon wrote:
zedz wrote:Finn has just happened to join some club that he's really, really proud of.
Actually, Members Only jackets don't have anything to do with clubs. Any old schmuck can wear them.
My God, does this also mean that David Puddy wasn't really a Magic 8 Ball?

And if Golden Boy is Jerry's #1 in the rotation, why do we never see him wear it?

Michael Kerpan · #990 Post by **Michael Kerpan** » Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:11 am

warren oates wrote:More embarrassing than the film itself?

I don't see any reason for Kiarostami to be "embarrassed" by this film.

warren oates · #991 Post by **warren oates** » Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:37 am

Well, though I did mean that when I wrote similar things in the thread for the film, here what I mean is something more like what I wrote to zedz above: That the image that so many have so much trouble with, does, in fact, accurately capture the avuncular/skeevy and awkward if not deliberately embarrassing flavor of the film. You're right that Kiarostami himself clearly was not embarrassed to go there with his characters. Fans of the film who were wishing it would all feel more refined like the lonely girl taxi poster shouldn't be embarrassed that he did either. I guess what I'm implying is that a certain degree of disdain for this cover (e.g. the "classy" artwork partisans vs. the crass cover) at least from those who've seen the film, feels like it boils down to a weird denial of the film's actual content.

pzadvance · #992 Post by **pzadvance** » Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:48 am

warren oates wrote:Well, though I did mean that when I wrote similar things in the thread for the film, here what I mean is something more like what I wrote to zedz above: That the image that so many have so much trouble with, does, in fact, accurately capture the avuncular/skeevy and awkward if not deliberately embarrassing flavor of the film. You're right that Kiarostami himself clearly was not embarrassed to go there with his characters. Fans of the film who were wishing it would all feel more refined like the lonely girl taxi poster shouldn't be embarrassed that he did either. I guess what I'm implying is that a certain degree of disdain for this cover (e.g. the "classy" artwork partisans vs. the crass cover) at least from those who've seen the film, feels like it boils down to a weird denial of the film's actual content.

I feel like I should clarify that my "embarrassing" charge was leveled solely at the inadequacy of the cover's artistic design, not the chosen scene's "crassness" or lack of "refinement"--and I'd be pretty shocked if anyone else here was responding negatively to the cover out of some sense of moral discomfort as opposed to just, you know, thinking it's really shoddily and hastily designed.

#993 Post by **zedz** » Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:59 am

Unless, of course, Kiarostami demanded that particular font.

warren oates · #994 Post by **warren oates** » Fri Feb 21, 2014 3:06 am

So, hypothetically then, with a different font, different layout, different cropping... But with the same basic concept, the same image, a photorealistic frame grab of that particular cinematic moment -- there are no Like Someone In Love fans who count themselves as current cover haters out there who would object to it?

#995 Post by **zedz** » Fri Feb 21, 2014 4:00 am

I believe the objection to the cover is that it's extraordinarily lazy and rather dull, not that the original still, or the scene it represents, or the film itself, is somehow offensive. I don't even know where you got that idea.

Michael Kerpan · #996 Post by **Michael Kerpan** » Fri Feb 21, 2014 4:18 am

zedz -- you took the words right out of my mouth (oops, right off the tips of my fingers).

Brian C · #997 Post by **Brian C** » Fri Feb 21, 2014 4:12 pm

warren oates wrote:So, hypothetically then, with a different font, different layout, different cropping... But with the same basic concept, the same image, a photorealistic frame grab of that particular cinematic moment -- there are no Like Someone In Love fans who count themselves as current cover haters out there who would object to it?

I think I'll speak for everyone here and say that, yes, we would be perfectly open-minded about reevaluating it if it was, you know, hypothetically different.

Yaanu · #998 Post by **Yaanu** » Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:23 am

Looks as though Scanovo will be working on making three-disc plastic BD-size cases:

It's my pleasure to officially be able to inform you that we will be building a 3disc full-sleeve Blu-Ray case that will have room for a Criterion booklet. It will look like the current 2/1 case but with an extra disc hub under the booklet.

The case has been designed with form and function in mind and will stay true to the philosophy of allowing Criterion to display their beautiful artwork without the interruption of a Blu-Ray bar while maintaining our focus on quality and protection of the contents of the package.

We expect our cases to start appearing on retail shelves either in late spring or early summer 2014.
Thanks again for the great feedback. It's really a gift to have such enthusiastic fans be a part of the fabric of this movie community. You're the reason that we continue to be able to make beautiful cases and SteelBooks for the industry.
Very best,
Nick Coughlan

I assume that Criterion will go about this in one of three ways: One, they will ignore the new cases and stick with digipaks, which offer more surface area for artwork and booklet sizes. Two, they will do something similar to the current system for older BD digipak releases and have a separate section on their website where one can purchase a separate plastic case and cover slip, and further move forth with plastic cases for the rest of their releases. Or, three, they do a combination of the two: Stick with digipaks for the main release, but also offer plastic cases online, perhaps in a limited run depending on demand.

Moe Dickstein · #999 Post by **Moe Dickstein** » Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:59 am

oh please let us get back to good plastic cases again.

#1000 Post by **Jeff** » Sat Feb 22, 2014 1:36 pm

Yaanu wrote:I assume that Criterion will go about this in one of three ways: One, they will ignore the new cases and stick with digipaks, which offer more surface area for artwork and booklet sizes. Two, they will do something similar to the current system for older BD digipak releases and have a separate section on their website where one can purchase a separate plastic case and cover slip, and further move forth with plastic cases for the rest of their releases. Or, three, they do a combination of the two: Stick with digipaks for the main release, but also offer plastic cases online, perhaps in a limited run depending on demand.

Four: Criterion will do what they've done for years. They'll use the new three-disc Scanavo cases for the majority of their dual-format releases going forward. The ones that they prepared for digipaks the last few months will still only be available in the digipaks, and digipaks will continue to be used for titles requiring a fourth disc or a larger booklet, or when Criterion wants to highlight a release as "special" or showcase its artwork.

Scanavo almost certainly created the new cases on a commission from Criterion. They're really the only major client for these particular cases. Scanavo's ability to manufacture the "Criterion Case" in a three-disc form was likely part of the impetus for Criterion to proceed with dual-format releases.

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