Forthcoming Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol. 6

[Gregory]

So the DVD-only market has remained sizable enough to pressure Criterion to continue releasing separate DVD editions alongside dual-format releases, but not sizable enough to sustain the extremely economical Eclipse line?
This makes no sense to me, unless the nagging impression I sometimes get is correct, that more and more of Criterion's fanbase is predominantly interested in English-language cinema, along with some major works by arthouse superstar directors from other countries, and largely skipped great Eclipse sets like the Grémillon, the Kobayashi, the first Czech New Wave set, and others earlier in the series, as well as the important but probably hard-to-sell World Cinema Foundation set (which has only a handful of reviews on Amazon, about half of those being complaints).

[FrauBlucher]

I think part of the problem has become time and manpower. Over the past 3 to 4 years the major studios' vaults have opened wide to Criterion unlike anytime since the laserdisc days. That has pushed the Eclipse series to the back burner. Even IFC titles have dwindled over the last several years. And also upgrades have taken up some manpower as well. Criterion has not increased their output on a per month basis. We just had announcements of 5 releases for September. Unfortunately Criterion can't give us everything we want. I'm still waiting for more Fellini.

[Rustle]

more and more of Criterion's fanbase is predominantly interested in English-language cinema.

If /Transport from Paradise/ was full of cameos by comedians tugging at their toe tags, or sported the killer soundtrack, we'd be in good shape. Sort of.

[atcolomb]

I think part of the problem has become time and manpower. Over the past 3 to 4 years the major studios' vaults have opened wide to Criterion unlike anytime since the laserdisc days. That has pushed the Eclipse series to the back burner. Even IFC titles have dwindled over the last several years. And also upgrades have taken up some manpower as well. Criterion has not increased their output on a per month basis. We just had announcements of 5 releases for September. Unfortunately Criterion can't give us everything we want. I'm still waiting for more Fellini.

I would like to see more Truffaut like Two English Girls which was released on a Criterion laserdisc.

[Noiradelic]

So the DVD-only market has remained sizable enough to pressure Criterion to continue releasing separate DVD editions alongside dual-format releases, but not sizable enough to sustain the extremely economical Eclipse line?

I suspect the Criterion Blu audience and the Eclipse audience overlap greatly. The serious film buffs willing to upgrade their DVDs of Late Spring or L'eclisse are likely to be the same ones who buy Eclipse releases. I think there's a lot to the theory that Hulu has sapped CC's will to put out Eclipses.

This makes no sense to me, unless the nagging impression I sometimes get is correct, that more and more of Criterion's fanbase is predominantly interested in English-language cinema, along with some major works by arthouse superstar directors from other countries, and largely skipped great Eclipse sets

Over the past 3 to 4 years the major studios' vaults have opened wide to Criterion unlike anytime since the laserdisc days.

This is a big part of it. There's also more demand for English-language and contemporary films from the Blu-Ray collector base. Last year Criterion said that 60% of sales were BR and 40% DVD, the reverse of the industry at large. I suspect that a big part of that 20% difference are the relatively large segment of CC Blu customers that won't buy subtitled films and the smaller overlapping segment that will buy contemporary foreign films but not B&W films.

[Gregory]

So the DVD-only market has remained sizable enough to pressure Criterion to continue releasing separate DVD editions alongside dual-format releases, but not sizable enough to sustain the extremely economical Eclipse line?

I suspect the Criterion Blu audience and the Eclipse audience overlap greatly. The serious film buffs willing to upgrade their DVDs of Late Spring or L'eclisse are likely to be the same ones who buy Eclipse releases. I think there's a lot to the theory that Hulu has sapped CC's will to put out Eclipses.

Definitely. I didn't mean to suggest that the DVD-only share of the physical media market would be the only thing keeping the Eclipse series going. All the more reason they should keep doing the sets, albeit at a slower pace than they used to.

[chatterjees]

I definitely want the Eclipse series to be alive, but off course want them to start upgrading them to blu-rays. Not some individual titles from the series (which is probably gonna happen soon), but they should start releasing all the volumes on both the formats. I don't care if its a dual format or separate releases. I have at least 15 sets from the set, but stopped buying it long ago, because I don't buy DVDs anymore. There are enough films in the Eclipse series with excellent PQ/SQ. At least, Criterion can start upgrading those volumes. I am not supporting Criterion shoving them in Eclipse series DVD collection for no reason. I will not mind if they release a collection of films without any extra features.

[movielocke]

Criterion clearly has access to some other Czech films (on Hulu), so I wouldn't call it dead. However, the lack of Eclipse is worrysome. Perhaps they don't sell well?

I think it's because Criterion has been busy with larger box sets that they don't have the time to properly produce Eclipse sets.

Towards the end of last year that was certainly true, but I feel like their box set output has gone down quite a bit since the beginning of the new year. We've seen releases through September, and in 9 months there's only been the Demy. I was one of those that clung to hope last Christmas that maybe the glut of boxes had pushed Eclipse aside, but the 2014 release schedule is starting to convince me that the line is just dead.

well we still haven't gotten the Wenders box, the Tati Box, the Decalogue or the Apu Trilogy, so we know there are a lot of box sets in the works.

Hulu has made releasing Eclipse sets irrelevant, unfortunately, because Hulu, unlike discs, probably won't be around with the same films in five years.

[Gregory]

I don't follow—unless you meant to write "hasn't made Eclipse sets irrelevant."
There are still decent percentage of viewers who still who prefer not to stream films. And even if I wanted to do so, I'd have the frustration of the thing stopping and buffering or freezing up at least a couple of times throughout the duration of the movie. I'll put up with that during a TV episode but not something like a Kobayashi film. I watch DVDs in the room where my projector system is, which isn't even connected to Hulu.

[jindianajonz]

I think he meant to say Hulu has usurped Eclipse's mission (releasing films that don't warrant full restorations on the cheap), which is unfortunate given the temporary nature of streaming.

[Gregory]

That means that for the long-term (which is a major part of why physical media is still relevant--so that I can be sure I can watch a film anytime I want in the future), the Eclipse sets are still just as relevant as ever.
The discs are still just as important for anyone who still wants DVDs, and that's still a crucial market for them, as they showed by continuing to put out separate DVDs alongside their dual-format releases.
So if they can put time into those DVD releases, why not into Eclipse sets that require about as little work to prepare as anything else they do and would still bring in some money?

I'm not often unconvinced by the idea that they're doing X instead of Y, when X and Y serve very distinct and considerable parts of Criterion's customer base (people who will stream things on Hulu vs. those that would rather have discs, those who will only buy Blu-rays vs. those who still buy DVDs, those who mainly want English-language films or major studio properties vs. those who (also) want more Czech cinema in R1. I understand that Criterion can't do absolutely everything, but they still clearly want to go on serving various parts of their customer base. I also get that Hulu may have led to a slowdown in Eclipse sets, but that already happened a year or two ago, so I don't see any reason whatsoever to halt the series completely (not that they've necessarily done that yet).

[movielocke]

Jason Altman has produced virtually every eclipse set, maybe he's working on other mainline material as a producer now (we could answer that by checking if he's produced any discs in 2014)? or maybe he left the company?

[vsski]

Maybe the reason for the slowdown in Eclipse sets is primarily economically motivated. I don't know the print run of the Eclipse sets and while I assume it's low there has to be a minimum to make it viable at all. And if not enough of them got sold and CC is sitting on a big inventory they may have decided to not put out many anymore or only those they feel confident will sell enough. That's unfortunately the advantage of streaming as it doesn't require any set number of pressings or keeping an inventory (and of course also one of the primary arguments for something like the Warner Archive line).

[movielocke]

it could be a lot of things really:

It could be producer availability/time.
It could be sales.
It could be streaming.
It could be format.
It could be the Etaix delimma.

Those last two, I think, are significant. we heard rumors for one-two years that etaix was getting an eclipse set, then it was released nearly bare bones as mainline, most likely because the assets available were good enough for the mainline and HD.

Earlier in Eclipse's life the Pearls of the Czech new Wave set and Robert Downey Jr. set were released, and criterion was criticized at the time for "dumping" the films to dvd only since the assets available were good enough for the mainline and for HD.

The two most recent sets were films available only in SD transfers, iirc.

At the same time, the company transitioned to an all Dual Format policy (now defunct), and internally they were probably working out how to approach eclipse dual format, and what to do if there was an eclipse release that didn't have HD ready assets, meaning would they irregularly have DVD only eclipse sets?

With the backlash to dual format, they're probably reconsidering all of the arguments, and instead of relaunching eclipse as dual format in 2014, they're debating whether or not to make it single format bluray (and leave the SD only assets to Hulu) or leave it as single format DVD. I can't imagine eclipse moves enough units to make it viable to release sets on both formats as the mainline does. Etaix was probably a test, and we haven't seen them repeat it yet (though, to be fair there's not a lot of data to assume releasing etaix in both formats was a failure or a success).

So I sort of think that Eclipse is stuck in a quagmire of format transition, and it's something of an all of the above situation. I wouldn't be surprised if they'd planned on launching the first DF or bluray eclipse with the next Czech new wave set.

[Jeff]

The Etaix Dilemma

My favorite Robert Ludlam novel.

[movielocke]

Actually the Etax Dilemma is written by the same author as The Overton Window

[John Doe]

Criterion Corner: Those folks at Criterion are up to their old tricks, pushing out gems on DVD and Blu-ray that collectors simply can’t live without. Down the road, we’ve learned that the company has slated David Lynch’s Mulholland Dr., the 2001 Hollywood-set mystery that actually started life as a pilot for a TV series. The film deals with an aspiring actress, an amnesiac woman, a film director, and a lesbian liaison and stars Naomi Watts, Laura Elena Harring, Robert Forster and Justin Theroux. This will be a nice companion piece to Criterion’s upcoming Eraserhead. Also due from the company is Terry Gilliam’s fantasy Time Bandits, available in a mega-deluxe edition. Just licensed for future release is Federico Fellini’s 1960 masterpiece La Dolce Vita with Marcello Mastroianni and Anita Ekberg. This will make a nice companion with The Great Beauty, the recent Oscar winner inspired by La Dolce Vita

http://www.moviefanfare.com/latest-buzz ... -releases/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[FrauBlucher]

Awesome news!!! Not really surprised by any of these. But this is as close to a confirmation as you can get without CC themselves saying these titles are coming.

[giovannii84]

"Time Bandits mega-deluxe" Criterion edition coming soon as well as Mulholland Drive and La Dolce Vita according to the article.

Is this the first OoP title to be re-released?

Also if this comes out, we might get re-releases of the other HandMade Films titles

[chatterjees]

La Dolce Vita from Criterion? All legal problems are solved then? Nice

[ellipsis7]

La Dolce Vita from Criterion? All legal problems are solved then? Nice

Yes, as I have posted elsewhere on the forum Paramount essentially won their case last year, now it appears they have licensed LA DOLCE VITA to Criterion for forthcoming release... A decent HD Master already exists from the recent restoration by L'Immagine Ritrovata da Cineteca di Bologna & the World Cinema Foundation...

[Buttery Jeb]

If Time Bandits is happening, that means the Handmade Library's available to Criterion again. Can't see them passing up reissues of Mona Lisa, Long Good Friday, Withnail and I and How to Get Ahead in Advertising, and maybe Five Corners (to replace the old Criterion laserdisc release of the film) over the next year or two.

[jindianajonz]

Is this the first OoP title to be re-released?

There's also Salo, and I think there was one or two others- at the very least a couple of titles recently went OOP for a short while before getting a repackage/dual format release. Did Third Man go OOP before getting a rerelease?

[matrixschmatrix]

No, but Playtime did.

[EddieLarkin]

If Time Bandits is happening, that means the Handmade Library's available to Criterion again. Can't see them passing up reissues of Mona Lisa, Long Good Friday, Withnail and I and How to Get Ahead in Advertising, and maybe Five Corners (to replace the old Criterion laserdisc release of the film) over the next year or two.

Arrow are getting many of these out first, all from new transfers. Time Bandits already, and Withnail and I, Mona Lisa and The Long Good Friday all coming soon (and I wouldn't be surprised to see more). I wonder if Criterion are going to do their own work or just licence from Arrow? After all, Time Bandits and Withnail and I are director and DP approved respectively, so it would seem a waste to start from scratch.