How Now Brown Blu-rays

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bevilacq12 · #226 Post by **bevilacq12** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 6:41 am

Yeah, I don't intend to imply that the issue could affect all Criterion BDs - it seems to be "isolated" to late 2009 and early 2010 titles. But that's still a large group to be "isolated" to.

Hopefully, by now, 4 years out, any disc that was going to go bad already has. Then we just check our discs once, get replacements from Criterion, and move on. The scenario I fear is that discs are still in the process of going bad.

FrauBlucher · #227 Post by **FrauBlucher** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 11:20 am

domino harvey wrote:I'm hoping that the reason we're all getting radio silence from Criterion on this is that someone is researching what lab pressed the problem discs, identify other possible future problematic titles, and institute a more organized exchange program, perhaps introduced in tandem with the forthcoming Criterion Store sale

This is probably happening. But nevertheless a public press release of, "we are aware of the problem, we're looking into it and will have more info after our findings," would be much appreciated.

Yaanu · #228 Post by **Yaanu** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 6:59 pm

I just checked my own copy of Stagecoach, and I've got a brownish tint as well, compared to my other BDs; I compared it to my Brakhage BDs and those are still blueish. It really blows because Stagecoach was one of my first Criterion titles, and was a gift from a friend.

I wonder why Criterion hasn't put out a definite statement on the BDs.
I'm going to assume they're digging through their past BD stock to see what titles are browning, as well as to see if there's a link in disc manufacturer so that they can recall all of those discs.

doc mccoy · #229 Post by **doc mccoy** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 7:29 pm

Ride with the Devil may be another one to a check - another poster on bluray.com has noticed the browining on the disc.

tenia · #230 Post by **tenia** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:37 pm

Which is absolutely why Criterion should already release a preliminary statement as to what they are looking : because meanwhile, all the 2010 titles are being looked at by their possessors which might spread a totally unnecessary general panic.
At this pace, we'll soon start to check all Criterion BDs released prior to 2011...

captveg · #231 Post by **captveg** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 12:14 am

If this turns out to be linked to a specific replication plant (which seems most likely), this may end up being an issue for other companies as well.

David M. · #232 Post by **David M.** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 12:52 am

Almost certainly. Who replicates Criterion's discs?

captveg · #233 Post by **captveg** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 12:53 am

Looks like my Howards End may be slightly browning. That's terribly disappointing for an OOP title.

captveg · #234 Post by **captveg** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 12:54 am

David M. wrote:Almost certainly. Who replicates Criterion's discs?

They would almost certainly use multiple replicators.

FrauBlucher · #235 Post by **FrauBlucher** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 1:27 am

You would think a number of Criterion employees would have the first pressings of the effected discs in their personal collections.

How awful would it be if Twilight Time used the same replicating plant. Yikes!

AMalickLensFlare · Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:06 am

I remember some years back, my There Will Be Blood BD turned really brown and wouldn't even start in my PS3. At the time, I was puzzled and had no idea how it had happened. I had forgotten about it entirely until I started keeping an eye on this thread. So this problem certainly isn't exclusive to Criterion (at least not from my experience).

captveg · #237 Post by **captveg** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 4:36 am

It looks to be effecting at least some of the 9/22/09 releases to 5/25/10 releases.

I have the following of this group and have checked them on my PS3. Here are my results:

Stagecoach - No bronzing, seemingly loads/plays fine

M - Significant edge browning, does not load

Days of Heaven - No browning, seemingly loads/plays fine

Yojimbo - No browning, seemingly loads/plays fine

Sanjuro - No browning, seemingly loads/plays fine

Lola Montès - No browning, seemingly loads/plays fine

Paris, Texas - No browning, seemingly loads/plays fine

8½ - No browning, seemingly loads/plays fine

Gimme Shelter - No browning, seemingly loads/plays fine

Howards End - Notable edge browning, does not load

Wings of Desire - No browning, seemingly loads/plays fine

Monterey Pop - Notable edge browning, did not load once, loaded another time but could not play first 3 minutes of feature

Jimi Plays Monterey & Shake! Otis at Monterey - No browning, seemingly loads/plays fine

Howards End is the most disappointing of this bunch as it cannot be easily replaced.

boywonder · #238 Post by **boywonder** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 4:50 am

... all I can say is that I have invested tons of money in Criterion and they have not answered my emails or made kind of press statement. Their silence is beginning to make me very weary. At this point I think they should post a note on their website that they are carefully looking into this problem and will have an exchange plan as soon as they figure how many titles are affected. We're getting into the Christmas buying season and I don't feel like spending more money for discs that have a four year lifespan!

captveg · #239 Post by **captveg** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 4:58 am

boywonder wrote:... all I can say is that I have invested tons of money in Criterion and they have not answered my emails or made kind of press statement. Their silence is beginning to make me very weary. At this point I think they should post a note on their website that they are carefully looking into this problem and will have an exchange plan as soon as they figure how many titles are affected. We're getting into the Christmas buying season and I don't feel like spending more money for discs that have a four year lifespan!

Knowing the industry, there has to be some major research going into it on their end right now. But I agree that the recent 48 hrs has escalated the issue - the thread on blu-ray.com has exploded tonight - which means they'll have to make a statement of some kind soon, even if it is of the "we are investigating and will provide more information at a later time" variety.

This is looking to me as having the potential of a six-figure or more loss for them. If a replicator ends up being to blame you better believe there will be pursuit of damages by Criterion.

movielocke · #240 Post by **movielocke** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 6:53 am

At the very least criterion will be out a deductible to their insurance company and the replicator will be out a deductible to their insurance company when criterion's insurance files a claim. Probably a $30,000 loss. And man hours to ship out replacements, time to beef up the unpaid intern staff.

stagefright50 · #241 Post by **stagefright50** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:22 am

I sent Mulvaney an email for the Eraserhead replacement and lumped in my browning discs in the email. He replied with instructions for Eraserhead and did not acknowledge the browning discs at all.
There's no way this will go without some sort of acknowledgment from Criterion. I'm in agreement that they have to be formulating some plans right now.

movielocke · #242 Post by **movielocke** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:47 am

I checked m, walkabout, stagecoach, ride with the devil, and Monterey pop, saw no visible browning on any and popped in m and it loaded fine.

Jonathan S · #243 Post by **Jonathan S** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:49 am

captveg wrote:If this turns out to be linked to a specific replication plant (which seems most likely), this may end up being an issue for other companies as well.

If it's the same chemical process associated with UK CD bronzing (the parallels are becoming disturbingly similar), then contact between the discs and Criterion's booklets may be a cause or accelerating factor. The first CDs in my collection to bronze were generally those with the fattest booklets, pressing against the discs. (I also had a similar problem with some UK David Attenborough sets, where only the DVDs resting against the illustrated packaging deteriorated.)

Has anyone noticed a similar relationship with the affected blu-rays? It would be interesting to hear from anyone who keeps the booklets separately.

bevilacq12 · #244 Post by **bevilacq12** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 2:35 pm

Jonathan S wrote:
captveg wrote:If this turns out to be linked to a specific replication plant (which seems most likely), this may end up being an issue for other companies as well.
If it's the same chemical process associated with UK CD bronzing (the parallels are becoming disturbingly similar), then contact between the discs and Criterion's booklets may be a cause or accelerating factor. The first CDs in my collection to bronze were generally those with the fattest booklets, pressing against the discs. (I also had a similar problem with some UK David Attenborough sets, where only the DVDs resting against the illustrated packaging deteriorated.)

Has anyone noticed a similar relationship with the affected blu-rays? It would be interesting to hear from anyone who keeps the booklets separately.

Ha... what if Criterion discs were the first to exhibit the symptoms of this problem due to their having essay booklets packed next to them. Meaning, discs from other companies would hypothetically be following suit soon enough (Image discs would be the next most likely candidate, and I'm not sure who else would have used the same pressing plant).

Grand Wazoo · #245 Post by **Grand Wazoo** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:13 pm

I just noticed my Well Go USA blu of the Shaw's Web of Death exhibits the same bronzing we are finding with the criterions. This disc was sealed until a few days ago. I just tested it and had no issues with playback but now I fear this may not last forever. Has anyone found examples of this from other companies yet?

aox · #246 Post by **aox** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:03 pm

My Pierrot le Fou skips pretty badly starting around 50 minutes. That can't be replaced though, right?

I will check M, Days of Heaven, and The Seventh Seal when I get home.

I actually streamed Stagecoach on mute at a party this weekend and it played all the way through. Didn't bother to notice if it was brown. This is all pretty troubling.

EDIT: If I remember correctly, my 8 1/2 started skipping last year (and the face of the disc was clean) and I didn't want to deal with it at the time. That might be another to check.

Der Spieler · #247 Post by **Der Spieler** » Wed Oct 01, 2014 2:51 am

My copies of M and Pierrot le fou don't show any browning, but my Seventh Seal is FUBAR. I'm glad that I saw that thread and can now take action. I'm very irritated by Criterion's silence.

Rayon Vert · #248 Post by **Rayon Vert** » Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:17 am

No response to my 2 emails either.

sinemadelisikiz · Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:46 am

Just checking a few of my discs now. Summer Hours stopped at 51 min like everyone else and a bit of a bronze halo. Stagecoach played fine, but Bucking Broadway had playback issues about 10 min in, so make sure to check for that folks!

Rayon Vert · #250 Post by **Rayon Vert** » Wed Oct 01, 2014 4:18 am

So it turns out it's a good thing they didn't release Rossellini's War Trilogy on blu.

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