How Now Brown Blu-rays

[criterionsnob]

I sent Mulvaney an email for the Eraserhead replacement and lumped in my browning discs in the email. He replied with instructions for Eraserhead and did not acknowledge the browning discs at all.
There's no way this will go without some sort of acknowledgment from Criterion. I'm in agreement that they have to be formulating some plans right now.

I did the same thing 5 days ago, and just got a response from Jon telling me to send in my Eraserhead disc, and to do the same for my Walkabout and Summer Hours. He didn't acknowledge the browning, but at least I'm getting replacements on those two blu-rays.

[Jonathan S]

The blu-ray.com forum thread devoted to the issue has now identified over a dozen titles - not all of them yet included in the first post. Interestingly, someone who reported his 8 1/2 (but no other title) as bronzed and freezing also mentions that he normally removes the booklets but in that instance he forgot to do so.

[Flanell]

My Summer Hours disc have problems and my Monterey disc as well. These two are the ones that has the most visible discolorisation of the discs i have checked. Some of the other discs released around this time have a slight tinge as well but not as severe as these two. I'm afraid that they will worsen over time as well, of course. I contacted Criterion concerning my Summer Hours disc about a week ago (unrelated to this thread and the one at bluray.com) but still no reply.

[Valin Kenobi]

The blu-ray.com forum thread devoted to the issue has now identified over a dozen titles - not all of them yet included in the first post.

Wow. A lot of people are straight-up pitchfork-toting panicking over there. And the quantity expecting replacements for OOP titles is just adorable.

[tenia]

A lot of people are straight-up pitchfork-toting panicking over there.

Radio silence + Premium collection + no exact idea what's going on + OOP titles possibly "lost forever".
Of course people are panicking.

I'm not myself, I'm just happy to gather data regarding SID codes of my copies and how they look and if they playback / have defective sectors popping up during disc scans. But I'm quite concerned that me living in France could prevent me from accessing a replacement program. I'm also very concerned about the extend of this issue. And what about younger discs ? Will they be defective in a couple of years ?

For each customer, it means having between $20 to $200 (or more) of products being endangered to turn into coasters soon (or having already turned into coasters).

And then, amplified by the Internet, people are willing to throw themselves in a research of a pattern.

To be fair, I'm not surprised but I'm sure that it'll calm down once Criterion will have issued a formal statement (especially if it explains precisely which titles / discs batches are concerned).

On the matter of OOP though, I think people are just unwilling to accept this might be gone forever.

[Jonathan S]

On the matter of OOP though, I think people are just unwilling to accept this might be gone forever.

When this happened in the UK with OOP bronzed CDs, the manufacturer (not the disc publishers) gave me £10 compensation for each disc they couldn't replace.

[ShellOilJunior]

The blu-ray.com forum thread devoted to the issue has now identified over a dozen titles - not all of them yet included in the first post.

Wow. A lot of people are straight-up pitchfork-toting panicking over there. And the quantity expecting replacements for OOP titles is just adorable.

It's now a witch hunt. The main purpose of that thread seems to be finding a disc that doesn't work then demanding a replacement. If a replacement is not offered then they're done with Criterion.

I think some people over there genuinely want to find reason to be upset.

None of my discs have been affected. However, my stance would be to sit tight and wait for Criterion to issue a statement. I'm sure they'll replace any bad discs. They've done so in the past for lesser issues (Carlos, White, etc).

[Jack Phillips]

I think some people over there genuinely want to find reason to be upset.

Totally unlike "some people" on this board, what?

[ShellOilJunior]

I think some people over there genuinely want to find reason to be upset.

Totally unlike "some people" on this board, what?

There's nothing wrong with reporting issues as it's informative. What I see over there is the OP genuinely happy to see discs not working and people upset with Criterion. The tone of the thread leans more towards witch hunt where some want Criterion to get raked over the coals.

[tenia]

The main purpose of that thread seems to be finding a disc that doesn't work then demanding a replacement.

I'm reading the blu-ray.com thread quite often to know which discs I should check and this is not at all my feeling about that thread.

Only a minority of posters there (1 or 2) are having a BS attitude, stating that the people at Criterion should get "the worst punishment possible" and other nice things but otherwise, this is still mostly an informative thread where people are gathering SID numbers, doing visual assessments of the discs and testing them either by trying playbacks on various players, using VSO Inspector or using Nero CD-DVD Speed.

And I'm very happy with that, even if the number of releases looked into is most likely unfairly growing into non-sense.

Also, regularly, posters there are reminding that Criterion have listened to complaints and issued replacement programs without hassle (Walkabout was getting replaced months ago, but also Carlos and White as you stated but also Ereaserhead very recently, or L'eclisse just before).

[Yakushima]

I checked more of my Criterions and found the following disks affected so far (there are still more to check):

M, Walkabout (that is a replacement disk they sent me) and Summer Hours all have very strong browning.

Yojimbo, Sanjuro, Days of Heaven and Bigger than Life show various shades of browning.

My copies of Howards End, Lola Montès, Pierrot le fou and Monterey Pop are still sealed, I plan to open them and inspect later.

I watched “M” about 6 months ago with no problem, and back then have not even noticed discoloration.

Needless to say, Criterion have not replied yet to my email about the issue, sent last week.

They are probably getting a “sound” legal advice how to limit their liability by not admitting to the existence of the problem at this point, but by doing this they are risking incalculable damage to their brand in the long run, I am afraid. The trust will be hard to rebuild

[jindianajonz]

Just a reminder- brown discs do not necessarily indicate bad discs. Blu-rays naturally have a brown shade to them, and different designs on the disc face can make the reverse side seem darker or lighter at different points. At first I thought my Summer Hours was starting to go bad, until I did a blind test with a disc released in the last year and couldn't tell them apart. Incidentally, I watched Summer Hours for the film club a couple months back and it played through just fine.

I don't envy Criterion's position in all this- aside from all the legitimately defective discs, they will certainly be bombarded by droves of people who see slight variations in color as evidence that their discs are going bad. Finding the right balance between correcting legitimate mistakes and screening out technical hypocondriacs is going to be a PR nightmare. I'd urge everybody here to actually check your discs for playback errors rather than just going off coloration.

[Yakushima]

jindianajonz: don't we have enough data at this point to suggest that "browning" will eventually lead to playback issues?

Ideally, Criterion should post a list of affected Blurays for recall and honor all requests, regardless of extent of degradation in each particular disk. Otherwise, I agree with you the hypothetical replacement program can get really messy.

[swo17]

What's the point of getting a replacement disc from Criterion now (which, who knows, could eventually go brown itself) if your current disc still plays fine? If you try to watch it again in a few years and it doesn't work then, you can ask for a replacement at that time. (This has happened to me a few times, including with DVDs, and Criterion has always been quick to fix these isolated incidents.) But for everyone to gang up at once demanding replacements of numerous discs at a time that haven't even been checked beyond observing the color of the bottom of the disc is pretty arrogant. Do these people want to put Criterion out of business?

The only rush to get replacements should be for titles in danger of going OOP, or ones that you were actually planning to watch in the near future.

[jindianajonz]

jindianajonz: don't we have enough data at this point to suggest that "browning" will eventually lead to playback issues?

Sure, actual bronzing will cause a disc to go bad, but I question the general publics ability to determine whether or not a disc actually shows signs of it. It's the difference between giving somebody a glass of milk without a word and asking them if they think the milk tastes funny- once you put the suggestion that something is amiss in their head, they are more likely to find fault in it, even if the item in question is perfectly fine.

[Yakushima]

I see your point Swo17, but do we have a reliable way to predict which title will go out of print in near future?

As it stands now many of us are stuck with several browned OOP titles without any hope of replacement. I would definitely not like to replay this situation in the future with other titles.

I agree Criterion needs time to investigate the problem and determine the extent of this disaster. But a simple aknowledgement of the existance of the issue is long overdue on their part. And an opportunity to replace disks should be eventually given to those customers who don't want to wait several years to see final stages of the rot making their copies unusable.

[swo17]

I see your point Swo17, but do we have a reliable way to predict which title will go out of print in near future?

Generally not, but as soon as it's announced that one is going OOP (before Criterion would have completely run out of replacement copies) that would be the time to panic.

[captveg]

An informative post from the bluray.com thread:

Alrighty. I called and talked with a very nice lady who was more than helpful. If I knew it would be such a helpful, informative call, I'd have considered recording it to share with you all. I had no clue they would reveal this much information though. I think I remember all of the important bits. I'll jot things down in a list form below so as to not miss anything...

-They are aware of the issue, but they only have confirmations on two titles - Summer Hours and Walkabout.

-I informed them of my situation (listed in OP), and read off to them the five titles with bronzing that no longer work, the one that freezes (Gomorrah), and the one with bronzing but still works as of right now (Days of Heaven).

-She was very appreciative of the information. I also read her off all other titles that have been reported as having issues.

-She jotted everything down to make note of it all to bring it to the attention of the guys in charge.

-She told me that they have over 1,000 emails in their inbox that they haven't even had time to look at or respond to yet. They are being hammered, and with only around 25 people working for the company and fewer than that which are able to deal with emails and things, it's just taking longer than it normally would.

-They are aware of the threads on various forums concerning these issues.

-Right now they are dealing with the Eraserhead situation. They are getting a lot of those discs in every single day, emails as well on that one, and they are trying to take care of that problem before tackling this bronzing issue.

-They are however already actively doing research into this problem and will then come up with a way for them to deal with it.

-She assured me that everyone with defective discs will receive replacements. It may take time, but they will take care of every single customer.

-The only exception to this is, unfortunately, for people with OOP discs. They have absolutely no stock of any of the OOP titles anymore, and they have no options to print additional copies for replacements. They will offer some sort of solution for those people though, which may be another Criterion title of your choice to replace it.

-She told me to remove all of my damaged discs and to put a sticky note on each and every one of them giving exact details of the problems that they are having. I am then to take the discs, and only the discs, and mail them to the address that she gave me.

-They do NOT want people to just randomly start mailing discs to them.

-They are going to deal with this on a case by case basis. Once you hear from them, have it be on the phone or in email, they will then instruct you exactly what to do as they did for me just now.

-They are aware that they have had issues with some of these titles in the past such as M and Walkabout. However, if you have bronzing and that sort of thing, this is a completely different and separate problem and they recognize it as such.

-I'm going to add one more thing to my list, which explains why they have yet to make a public statement on this issue...

-She told me that they are hesitant to publicly say anything yet, other than on a case by case basis, because they have yet to complete their research into the problem. They do not know the exact case of the issues as of this time, but they are currently looking into it. Unless, or until, they can narrow things down to where they can say exactly what the issue is, they will be dealing with this on a case by case basis as they have almost always done in the past. Long story short - if you have a defective disc, it will get replaced, and if they do discover the exact problem, they will release a public explanation at that time.

-They will be responding to each and every email soon. They have simply been slammed and that, mixed with Eraserhead, they are behind way more than ever before. Be patient, and they will take care of all of us.

[captveg]

All that being said, I wonder if it would be worth it to track down another copy of Howards End since they won't be able to replace it, since I'd be risking that copy going bad as well. Is there another blu-ray release internationally, perhaps?

[Drucker]

An informative post from the bluray.com thread:

-She told me that they have over 1,000 emails in their inbox that they haven't even had time to look at or respond to yet. They are being hammered, and with only around 25 people working for the company and fewer than that which are able to deal with emails and things, it's just taking longer than it normally would.

I hope we can all remember this the next time we're outraged we don't get our announcements in time.

[swo17]

I also work for a small company, and if I even have to deal with 20 emails in a day, it's a bad day.

[tenia]

All that being said, I wonder if it would be worth it to track down another copy of Howards End since they won't be able to replace it, since I'd be risking that copy going bad as well. Is there another blu-ray release internationally, perhaps?

There is a release in France through MK2, but I have no idea if this release is good / Region Free / without forced subs / even if it's still in print.

But still.

However, bear in mind that since we don't know how it could be batch related or not, I'm quite certain some titles touched by this stability have copies which will be fine and others that will degrade over time.

[captveg]

An informative post from the bluray.com thread:

-She told me that they have over 1,000 emails in their inbox that they haven't even had time to look at or respond to yet. They are being hammered, and with only around 25 people working for the company and fewer than that which are able to deal with emails and things, it's just taking longer than it normally would.

I hope we can all remember this the next time we're outraged we don't get our announcements in time.

True, though my impression of the forum members here was at worst frustrated concern at a lack of response rather than outright mob mentality of a handful at bluray.com. Fortunately most of them over there kept their heads as well.

This does really suck for those with bad copies of Howards End and Pierrot le fou, but there will at least be some kind of compensation (coupon/$$ at criterion.com is my guess), which at least in my case should help me get something else for far less than I would have paid, and gives me the option to track down and buy another Howards End hoping for a copy that hasn't failed.

[Ted Todorov]

There is now a #BrownDisc hashtag on Twitter. Please tweet using it, please mention @Criterion in your tweets. Please be civil, please post pictures of your brown Blu-Rays, please do it. Unfortunately forums like ours are mainstream invisible. Twitter is, very, very visible.

https://twitter.com/hashtag/BrownDisc

If enough of you do it, Criterion will have to respond publicly.

[swo17]

Why should they have to respond publicly given that the detailed information that they've shared with individual customers (like what captveg just posted) is being widely distributed?