Criterion Random Speculation Vol.2

[Dr. Mabuse]

Let's not forget we're expecting more Ozu's in 2006.

[LightBulbFilm]

331 is empty!!! lets speculate!

334 is also empty!

and 335...!

and 336.......

wait a minute.
I'm spotting a pattern here.

Bottle Rocket
Dazed and Confused
Crash
She's Gotta Have It
The Phantom India
The Fire Within

I don't know. Random speculation.

[chaddoli]

Folks, the restoration of Berlin Alexanderplatz is premiering at the 2007 Berlin International Film Festival -- I wouldn't expect a Criterion release until then.

[Mental Mike]

15.5 hours on one disc? Technology is getting pretty good, I'd say..

[zut]

[katjakassin]

Bottle Rocket

I thought Bottle Rocket was getting a special edition treatment from Columbia/Tri-Star?

[justeleblanc]

Brilliant!

[toiletduck!]

15.5 hours on one disc? Technology is getting pretty good, I'd say..

Criterion has actually been known in the past to put more than one disc per spine number. It's a phenomenon that often occurs when a film or a film's resulting supplements are quite simply unable to fit on one disc. Quite forward thinking folks, these Criterionites.

-Toilet Dcuk

[LightBulbFilm]

Has anyone else asked about this? I mean, it's a great cult TV show turned movie, and it has a certain importance to the American film culture and the culutre in general (I mean who doesn't know the three silhouettes in front of the movies screen?) I think it deserves a pace in the collection. Any other opinions?

[DrewReiber]

I think it deserves a pace in the collection. Any other opinions?

Yeah, this is one of those rare occasions where I would be adamantly opposed to such inclusion. The series was fun and good, but it existed at the expensive of those who put their own heart and soul into making actual films. When it was restricted to the tube, it was a cute gag, but the feature film version pushed it way past it's own reason for existence.

Mocking This Island Earth was a completely unnecessary shift in direction for the concept and began a trend where they degraded films out of desperation for material, not reason, such as Danger Diabolik. What had been an otherwise fun wink to people who need an excuse to cut loose at bad films became a pander to those who didn't have the patience or tact to approach different kinds of films with respect or an open mind.

As a fan of the series itself, I didn't think the movie version or episodes (around that time) were very good, and didn't find Mike Nelson anywhere near as humorous as Joel Hodgeson. I stopped watching it after that, yet I still want to blow somebody's head off everytime I get crap for saying anything positive about This Island Earth because some idiot in the room's only reference for the film comes from a TV show movie. And that's just sad.

[Gordon]

Mocking This Island Earth was a completely unnecessary shift in direction for the concept and began a trend where they degraded films out of desperation for material, not reason, such as Danger Diabolik.

Well, This Island Earth is a film that I admire greatly and I am in agreement with Raymond Durgnat, who made the case in his amazing 1967 book, Films and Feelings (unfortunately out-of-print) that the film is a very important American film of the 50s, reflecting many anxieties, trends, opinions and politics of the times, but disguised in a garish and crudely poetic cinematic style. Durgnat also saw the film as that rare thing: Cinema as Myth. It's a Universal title - I'd love to see it licensed to Criterion or Eclipse; it's just a shame that Durgnat passed away in 2000.

[Nihonophile]

Yeah, this is one of those rare occasions where I would be adamantly opposed to such inclusion. The series was fun and good, but it existed at the expensive of those who put their own heart and soul into making actual films. When it was restricted to the tube, it was a cute gag, but the feature film version pushed it way past it's own reason for existence.

Mocking This Island Earth was a completely unnecessary shift in direction for the concept and began a trend where they degraded films out of desperation for material, not reason, such as Danger Diabolik. What had been an otherwise fun wink to people who need an excuse to cut loose at bad films became a pander to those who didn't have the patience or tact to approach different kinds of films with respect or an open mind.

As a fan of the series itself, I didn't think the movie version or episodes (around that time) were very good, and didn't find Mike Nelson anywhere near as humorous as Joel Hodgeson. I stopped watching it after that, yet I still want to blow somebody's head off everytime I get crap for saying anything positive about This Island Earth because some idiot in the room's only reference for the film comes from a TV show movie. And that's just sad.

The series celebrated the films they heckled while still playfully pointing out the campiness of those films.

The pilot of the show placed an outsider, an alien who was in fact Joel in a theatre and had him watch 'The Green Slime' (Kinji Fukasaku 1968). The attitude of the show from the get-go was what is it like for those not from earth to experience the cinema and thereby our culture?

This slightly silly idea was transformed into having a human who was sent into space unwillingly that in his loneliness built some robots who have never been to earth before and they desire to understand the earth(a 'Silent Running' parody). This objective analysis of human kind continued throughout the show, just listen to the Godzilla Geneology Bop from season two to hear the 'bots beg Joel to explain our culture to them. The show took this further in the Sci-fi channel episodes where the characters began to take form as they encountered silly plot devices such as apes and time worms.

The ultimate payoff of the show was that in the last episode ('Danger: Diabolik') Crow is scared to go to earth. In one of the last host segments, our characters sing the song 'To Earth' to convince Crow that the earth although not perfect it is in fact a great place.

I think that the objective but loving attitude the show had towards humanity was one of the most endearing parts of the show and that the attitude of there is good and bad things on earth can be related to their opinion of the films that they watched.

Whether this results in the theatrical MST3K film deserving a place in the Criterion Collection is not up to me to say, but I will say that the show had a theme that was more interesting than most any other series ever broadcast on television, at least in english.

[tryavna]

The series celebrated the films they heckled while still playfully pointing out the campiness of those films.

This is how I've always viewed MST3k, too. And I think that "playful" is the key word here. What's really remarkable about all the shows is how little cynicism and nastiness shows up (even when they're poking fun at Joe Don Baker!). The writers/performers always gave me the impression that they held a genuine fondness for the films they lampooned, just as they held a genuine fondness for the tacky 1980s pop culture they regularly referred to. When you stop to consider how many times they had to sit through a truly awful movie (like that German version of "Hamlet" with Maximillian Schell), you begin to realize just how dedicated they were as moviegoers.

[Gregory]

I agree with the above two posts about the show's attitude toward the movies featured on it. I have met a number of people who didn't like that This Island Earth was selected for The Movie, but probably just because it was then associated with all the truly bad movies regularly included in the series. It's the polar opposite discussion to the one all too familiar to this forum: what is x film doing in the Criterion Collection alongside all these other films and doesn't that take status away from the rest of the collection and the collection's whole project. Anyway, it's not worth taking seriously someone who would give someone crap for liking one of the films on MST3K because it's a bad movie or is presumed to be one. Aside from the presumption, even actual bad movies have a distinct kind of value (as the Surrealists were well aware) but that's a different discussion.
Also, the whole issue is probably a moot point in connection to Criterion because Criterion would probably only consider it for Eclipse, and who knows the status of that endeavor. Also, Rhino seems to have excusive rights to MST3K in R!, but that raises the question of why The Movie has been out-of-print for some time now.

[flyonthewall2983]

There apparently was a bootleg special edition that was created by someone and released somewhere online in '03.

[LightBulbFilm]

Does anyone think this will get a Criterion releasE? I mean, didn't Merchant Ivory produce it or something?? So there might be a chance.

[pzman84]

Sony owns the rights to the Apu Trilogy. If you can get Sony to start putting some of their titles on Criterion, then the answer is yes.

[LightBulbFilm]

But didn't Merchant Ivory distribute it or produce it or something? Also I remember seeing somewhere that it's public domain...

[LightBulbFilm]

Here, I found the website:

http://www.reelmediainternational.com/search.htm

Look up all three films: Pather Panchali, Aparajito and The World of Apu and they all show up as public domain... Maybe Criterion doesn't know they are public domain?

[LightBulbFilm]

What about The Apu Trilogy? As far as I know Sony does not own the rights to them, apparently the trilogy is public domain according to this website: http://www.reelmediainternational.com/search.htm Just search the three titles: Pather Panchali, Aparajito and The World of Apu... They show up in there. Maybe Criterion doesn't know they are public domain? Why would they be holding back on releases of them then?

[godardslave]

I speculate there will be a Brighter Summer day released in 2006.

[Narshty]

I really wouldn't start belittling other people about their contributions to the board.

[katjakassin]

What about The Apu Trilogy? As far as I know Sony does not own the rights to them, apparently the trilogy is public domain according to this website: http://www.reelmediainternational.com/search.htm Just search the three titles: Pather Panchali, Aparajito and The World of Apu... They show up in there. Maybe Criterion doesn't know they are public domain? Why would they be holding back on releases of them then?

Something tells me that Criterion would know if they were or not. If they didn't, I would think that all of their higher ups would have to have their heads checked.

But that being said, and seeing as how I don't know how these rights issues go, are each of the Apu Trilogy films in question public domain and that's the way it is. Or are select prints of the Apu Trilogy public domain?

[pzman84]

Merchant Ivory distributed the restored version of the Apu Trilogy in 1995. They distributed most Ray films restored in 1995 with Sony Pictures Classics. My guess is the title has fallen into public domain but all the good film elements are owned by MI. Since they distributed with Sony, their are probably rights issues. I am as upset about how bad the Apu Trilogy is on Sony's DVD. However, if a Ray film is going to be released on Criterion, it will probably be from Nicholas not Satyajit.

[tryavna]

Here, I found the website:

http://www.reelmediainternational.com/search.htm

Look up all three films: Pather Panchali, Aparajito and The World of Apu and they all show up as public domain... Maybe Criterion doesn't know they are public domain?

LightBulb, you need to double-check your information here. Reel Media International deal almost exclusively in VHS distribution. The films they list as PD are PD only in regards to videotape rights; it has nothing to do with DVD. (In fact, according to IMDb, they've only released one DVD: The Texas Kid. Here's the link: http://www.imdb.com/company/co0113964/#distributor) They even list von Stroheim's Queen Kelly as PD, but Kino owns the DVD distribution rights.

A much better source for copyright ownership is the Library of Congress. Unfortunately, their Internet-accessible database doesn't list many films yet (though it's supposed to be revamped later this month). But you can probably inquire via e-mail.