798 Death by Hanging

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The Fanciful Norwegian
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Re: 798 Death by Hanging

#26 Post by The Fanciful Norwegian »

htom wrote:If the Wikipedia listing is reliable, this also means that Criterion have now released to home video all four Japanese live-action features identified as using Paramount's VistaVision cameras: Death By Hanging, In the Realm of the Senses, Empire of Passion (all by Oshima) and Vengeance is Mine by Imamura.
The "about the transfer" section of the booklet states outright that Death by Hanging wasn't a VistaVision film and that the confusion apparently came about because it used a Japanese format called "Vista," which I suspect is just standard matted widescreen. (I've also noticed that Japanese DVD packaging sometimes uses "vista" to mean "widescreen.") DVD Talk's review of White Christmas (by the Japan-based Stuart Galbraith IV) has a note at the end asserting that this is the case for the other Japanese "VistaVision" films.

Edit: The Japanese Wikipedia article on screen formats uses the phrase "vista size" (ビスタ・サイズ) for films in 1.66:1 ("European vista") and 1.85:1 ("American vista"). So it seems "vista" in Japanese simply refers to a non-'Scope widescreen film.
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htom
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Re: 798 Death by Hanging

#27 Post by htom »

The Fanciful Norwegian wrote:The "about the transfer" section of the booklet states outright that Death by Hanging wasn't a VistaVision film and that the confusion apparently came about because it used a Japanese format called "Vista," which I suspect is just standard matted widescreen. (I've also noticed that Japanese DVD packaging sometimes uses "vista" to mean "widescreen.") DVD Talk's review of White Christmas (by the Japan-based Stuart Galbraith IV) has a note at the end asserting that this is the case for the other Japanese "VistaVision" films.

Edit: The Japanese Wikipedia article on screen formats uses the phrase "vista size" (ビスタ・サイズ) for films in 1.66:1 ("European vista") and 1.85:1 ("American vista"). So it seems "vista" in Japanese simply refers to a non-'Scope widescreen film.
Interesting. It is true that the 1.66:1 ratio was rarely in use even in the UK by this time, so it stands out that three of the four films in that assumed grouping use it (the exception being Death by Hanging). I see the MOC Vengeance is Mine Blu-ray that is part of the Imamura Collection is presented as 1.85:1, though.
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The Fanciful Norwegian
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Re: 798 Death by Hanging

#28 Post by The Fanciful Norwegian »

1.66:1 was still pretty common in continental Europe. I think Japan was fairly late coming around to matted widescreen—it seems like almost everything from the '60s is either 'Scope (studio films) or Academy (independent productions, including Oshima films like Diary of a Shinjuku Thief and The Man Who Left His Will on Film)—so while 1.85:1 now appears to be the de facto standard for matted widescreen in Japan, it may have coexisted with 1.66:1 through the '70s and perhaps beyond. Interestingly the Japanese DVDs of several Kore-eda films (everything from After Life through Hana, I believe) are in 1.66:1, as is the R2J of Gohatto, but I don't know if any theaters in Japan actually exhibited them this way.
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zeroism
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Re: 798 Death by Hanging

#29 Post by zeroism »

Aside from Death By Hanging, I've personally never encountered a Japanese film from the 60s or before presented in anything but Academy or 'Scope equivalent. 1.85:1 seems to have become more widely adopted sometime in the 70s - perhaps starting with independents like ATG, whose theater chain presumably would’ve been equipped to project this ratio from the 60s onward, owing to the other side of their business having been art house imports. And the vast majority of Japanese films I've seen from the 80s and 90s, studio or otherwise, are in that ratio.

1.66:1 seems to be very rare in Japan in any era, with almost all of the ten or so Japanese films I've seen presented in that ratio being the ones mentioned above (counting Criterion's version of Vengeance is Mine). The use of this ratio for the two 70s Oshimas could perhaps be explained by the fact that they were European (co-)productions, but this wouldn’t apply to Vengeance is Mine. Perhaps Criterion’s framing of the latter could be a result of the VistaVision misunderstanding?

As for the Koreeda films and Gohatto, perhaps with these it has something to do with the (mainly European) festival market, where these films would’ve likely received their biggest share of attention.
WmS
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Re: 798 Death by Hanging

#30 Post by WmS »

Those older Koreeda films were by Yamazaki Yutaka shot on an Aaton XTR in Super-16, which has a native aspect ratio of 1:67. There's an article about Dare mo shiranai in an old issue of American Cinematographer.
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knives
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Re: 798 Death by Hanging

#31 Post by knives »

domino harvey wrote:I'm not sure how sincere I take Oshima's death penalty criticisms to be, not that it matters too much to the quality of the film. This was probably the closest I've seen someone not directly adapting Kafka get to Kafka, though the homage is a bit on the nose (the central character is even referred to only by his initial). But after thirty minutes or so, I got the joke fifty times over, yet the film kept on at it before taking that odd turn halfway through and continuing ever forward/in place. Satire like this has to go for broke to even have a chance to work, and Oshima certainly goes all-in, but I just found this whole exercise too blunt and endless, and I don't think the film is nearly as clever as it thinks it is, which makes its slim insights less than revelatory.
I'm quoting this pretty exclusively for how I do and don't agree with your comments. At the same time it's to build a firewall since I was originally planning on using much stronger language against the Kafka comparison which I see as superficial and almost ignoring the major differences of this work compared with even The Trial which is where I assume the comparisons come from. I remain unconvinced that Oshima even had read Kafka before this film, but would be equally unsurprised to hear the opposite. Before that though I want to say I strongly agree with you on how Oshima depicts the death penalty. It seems clear to me that any criticism is incidental and just an excuse to work through the real point of interest which is Japanese, particularly the government, relations with Koreans. The opening educational film set up with its stiff direction and leaden acting almost makes me think that Oshima is part of that 13% who don't care either way. He pretty quickly drops all criticism of the death penalty and what arguments he puts forth are spouted by a character he clearly doesn't like and is characterized as a superstitious ostrich. The lengthy opening seems like just another joke for Brechtian purposes.

Onto Kafka. Obviously there's a few similarities here (the initial, the persecution for a crime the protagonist doesn't understand himself to have done, the use of a minority experience for that lead), but with the possible exception of the first none of these similarities seem all that similar to me. Kafka's use of K strikes me mostly as a stylistic tick with no deeper meaning, but it actually does serve some narrative purpose here playing and then overplaying the death penalty angle. It is possible that Oshima is also using it to put off being explicit until necessary about his Korean origins, but that is probably reaching on my part. The next two similarities are fairly close in how they are pulled off differently, but in opposite ways. The key here strikes me in understanding how much more explicit Oshima is and where his point of view is. Kafka being K is fairly evident in his works and has been talked about by those better then me. Oshima though is not R and doesn't seem to relate to him at all. Not even at the film's end when he gives R that monologue. R is nothing more then a Korean. Instead Oshima seems primarily concerned with the persecutors identity. That's clear from a narrative point in just what we know. The antisemitism K fights is an unpronounceable thing that must only be left to an abstract haunting. Here we get detail after detail, reenactment after reenactment to where we know R is guilty and exactly of what and how. He's deserving of some sort of punishment because of that guilt, yet remains innocent due to being Korean. That's not a Kafka message at all where the guilt is due to being a member of the unlikable minority.

As for my feelings on the film I think it starts off okay, but Oshima really only brings this up to his standard when he goes for broke in the second hour, but he really only sustains that top line thrill for about forty minutes before the film starts to crater in exhaustion. It still manages to end on a significant note and there are good bits spread out in the last twenty minutes though. Even besides the main feature though this strikes me as a pretty essential release. Tony Rayns does his typical thing in a comprehensive 30 minutes talking head piece. Some of it is repetitive from other releases, but almost all of it is unique to this release, in terms of Rayns on disc pieces. In particular his comments on the film are very illuminating and provide some amazing context. The short is a fairly generic Chris Marker styled film painted with an equally generic leftist message. It's not bad, but doesn't accomplish more then feel like a brainstorm session on how to depict Koreans (which I think Oshima got better on as he went along). Still the historical context and how it supports the main feature makes this a particularly helpful extra which I'm glad was included.
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mizo
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Re: 798 Death by Hanging

#32 Post by mizo »

knives, you bring up a some really interesting points (although I don't think I'd call Oshima's criticism of the death penalty "incidental" - while he does tackle the subject in an extremely roundabout and frequently oblique way, he circles back to it too often, particularly at the end, for it to be truly sidelined, as you suggest).

However, while I can't speak for Kafka, I was under the impression that Oshima's use of only the initial was because that's how crimes committed by minors were reported in Japanese newspapers. Underage criminals - particularly the perpetrators of especially heinous acts, as in the film - were only identified in the press by a pseudonym, often simply an initial, until they came of age. The influence and ubiquity of the press seem to be recurring themes in the film - as I recall, one of the reenactments is performed on a set with walls completely covered in newspapers.

Edit: Just realized domino was the one who associated the use of the initial with Kafka, though my point still stands.
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domino harvey
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Re: 798 Death by Hanging

#33 Post by domino harvey »

I will say that after suffering through Diary of a Shinjuku Thief and the Man Who Left His Will on Film for the upcoming Best of the Lists Project list, I have a newfound appreciation for this movie for not making me hate it!
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mizo
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Re: 798 Death by Hanging

#34 Post by mizo »

Did you at least like the music in TMWLHWOF? Perhaps my favorite movie soundtrack (I find the film to be one of Oshima's lesser efforts, seriously handicapped by the lack of well-defined, memorable characters - the lead is such a black hole of everything).
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domino harvey
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Re: 798 Death by Hanging

#35 Post by domino harvey »

I don't even remember it, to be honest. As far as the leads go, all I retained was that the central couple were walking "Before" ads for Proactiv...
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knives
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Re: 798 Death by Hanging

#36 Post by knives »

Aw, Diary of a Shinjuku Thief is one of my favorites. I guess men can't agree on everything.
mizoguchi5354 wrote:knives, you bring up a some really interesting points (although I don't think I'd call Oshima's criticism of the death penalty "incidental" - while he does tackle the subject in an extremely roundabout and frequently oblique way, he circles back to it too often, particularly at the end, for it to be truly sidelined, as you suggest).

However, while I can't speak for Kafka, I was under the impression that Oshima's use of only the initial was because that's how crimes committed by minors were reported in Japanese newspapers. Underage criminals - particularly the perpetrators of especially heinous acts, as in the film - were only identified in the press by a pseudonym, often simply an initial, until they came of age. The influence and ubiquity of the press seem to be recurring themes in the film - as I recall, one of the reenactments is performed on a set with walls completely covered in newspapers.

Edit: Just realized domino was the one who associated the use of the initial with Kafka, though my point still stands.
That's what I meant. I know that's how Britain does it, boy A type stuff, so I assumed Japan was likewise.
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Ribs
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Re: 798 Death by Hanging

#37 Post by Ribs »

The Man Who Left His Will on Film is another of my favorites from this period from Oshima. In retrospect I'd not put it as second-favorite but it's just barely edged out by Night and Fog in Japan, which I'm assuming Criterion will put out soon if this is selling all right.

I wouldn't say I agree with you on Diary of a Shinjuku Thief but I really didn't care for it overall as I had very little comprehension for anything happening despite reading what Desser has to say about it in his book before seeing it. I'm sure I'd appreciate it more with a more careful viewing but it's probably my least favorite of the Oshimas I've watched.
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