Criterion U.K.

[rapta]

The New World, My Own Private Idaho and most other New Line Cinema titles are still distributed by Entertainment in Video in the UK, or at least those discs seem to be in print and have not been re-issued by Warner. I don't think Criterion could get their hands on New Line titles until EiV deal runs out.

I actually have the EiV Blu-ray release of The New World, so I was aware of that and you might be right about that one (until their rights expire of course). However, the 2008 DVD edition of My Own Private Idaho I have is from Warner Bros so I think it's safe to say Criterion could well release it on Blu-ray over here if they definitely have a WB deal!

I've noticed EiV's rights generally seem to be expiring on some of their 'older' titles (90's/early 2000's). I say this because Warner Bros have recently issued titles that EiV had previously released on Blu-ray, implying that rights may have expired on most of their pre-2001 catalogue - Don Juan Demarco, The Mask, Rush Hour, The Astronaut's Wife, Boiler Room, Final Destination, Magnolia, American History X and The Lord of the Rings Trilogy being several examples. StudioCanal now have a few of theirs too (What's Eating Gilbert Grape, The Piano, The City of Lost Children, Leaving Las Vegas). EiV also seemingly rushed out a Blu-ray release of American Psycho before their rights expired, because Lionsgate released their own disc of the same film a few months later. It looks like Gang's of New York may be next (which would presumably revert to Disney).

So yeah, it looks likely that Criterion could well release My Own Private Idaho in the UK, but perhaps not The New World (for the time being at least). But I'm fine with that because if there's definitely a WB deal in place, we may still get a Malick title in the UK - Badlands!

PS: I'm hoping this may also mean we get Criterion editions of Traffic and Ride With the Devil over here too, assuming Universal UK will play ball (they may do since they seem to co-operate with Sony quite well). Traffic in particular is Top 3 Soderbergh in my opinion, and I'd love to upgrade my DVD copy.

I also noticed there are a bunch of EiV titles that hopefully get UK Blu-ray releases in the near future once their rights expire (some more likely than others of course): Little Children (WB), Birth (WB), Far from Heaven (Universal), Ali (Sony), Gosford Park (Universal), Storytelling (WB), and Happiness (Universal). I'd also love Hotel Rwanda (Lionsgate/MGM?), About Schmidt (WB), The Man Who Wasn't There (Universal), Pleasantville (WB), and Donnie Brasco (Sony), even though I understand there are already Region Free discs from the US...I just haven't imported any of them, and at least a couple of them are bound to show up in the UK soon (namely Donnie Brasco and The Man Who Wasn't There).

This perhaps shows just how bad my 'to watch' pile is, but I've got the Infinifilm edition of Blow somewhere, as yet unopened! One day...!

(...I'll be found dead under a collapsed pile of unwatched movies)

Can't really remember what happens in that film, but seem to remember thinking it was pretty wack...

[peerpee]

I've heard from 3 different sources that the OCC sales figures for Criterion UK titles is extremely low (100-200 per title!). Thought they'd be doing much better than that. I would have expected them to have done those figures in one shop, in one city, on one weekend. The £27.99 RRP price point is too high, but in reality it's translated to £15 in FOPP, etc, which you can't argue with really.

Is it a lack of advertising? (Probably wouldn't help much.)

Lack of top tier big titles? (I'd say so.)

Existing Criterion importers not wanting any of the BBFC logo nonsense mucking up their collection? (I'd like to think so).

I'd estimate that these figures are at least 5x lower than predicted forecasts. Will be interesting to see what titles are released Sept-Dec!

[MichaelB]

Worthing HMV has them for £17.99, which isn't an especially attractive price in the middle of a new-release "two for £25" and a general "five for £30" offer, even if it's a tenner less than the absurd RRP.

As you say, I suspect the lack of top-tier titles isn't helping either - I certainly will be buying the likes of Speedy at some point (not least because I nearly imported it), but I'm not in any hurry.

[Orlac]

"Existing Criterion importers not wanting any of the BBFC logo nonsense mucking up their collection? (I'd like to think so)."

This

[Finch]

I've been importing Criterions for ages and am not especially precious about the BBFC logos (especially if it's lacklustre/dire covers like In A Lonely Place) but the lack of top tier titles probably factors in the low sales, and the £17.99 price almost certainly will have, although to be fair, even at £17.99 it's still about £4-5 cheaper than importing the US discs, and in the case of Only Angels Have Wings and In A Lonely Place, I didn't feel like waiting for the next half price sale of the US imports (I haven't imported any titles between December and now but will buy them by the bucketload once allyourmusic and others mirror the B&N sale in July). Arrow and MoC editions that are similarly stacked or more so even, sell for £14.99 or less even. It'll be interesting to see how Dr Strangelove sells with the wacky C attached, especially since the Sony Blu-Ray has been out in the UK for years, too.

I think there's some frustration in a few quarters too about the lack of communication from Criterion about the monthly UK releases, but I don't know how much creating a .co.uk URL (or a UK Facebook page) with a Coming Soon page would really help sales. Might help address the feelings of some UK customers who feel Criterion is treating their market as an afterthought, though.

[tenia]

It's a tad too expensive IMO. It's not so much an issue for me because it's still cheaper than importing the US releases but still, dropping the prices a bit wouldnt hurt.
Proper advertising too. Currently, it looks as if almost nobody cares about it in Criterion HQ.

[kidc85]

Pardon my ignorance, what's OCC?

I'm not surprised if Criterion UK is a bit of a flop, the whole enterprise smacks of arrogance or short-sightedness. No dedicated website, piss-poor communication, no special introductory prices, just an assumption that they're Criterion and we'd all be falling over ourselves with open wallets for them and their uninspiring line-up. They're a decade too late for it to work like this.

[peerpee]

The OCC is the Official Chart Company's data which can be accessed by those with business accounts to see how many units have been sold. I believe it tallies all barcode sales (on and offline), but not those sold to addresses outside the UK (which is its weakspot).

[tenia]

In this case, would the old saying "import / export is negligible" still be true ?

[peerpee]

I would expect sales of Criterion UK discs from amazon.co.uk to English speakers in continental Europe to be reasonably high, now that the Region B barrier has been broken. It could be that sales to Denmark, Germany, France, Italy, Sweden, etc are dwarfing the low British sales.

[tenia]

That would be quite an unusual market business, wouldnt it ? Selling most of your products out of your designated market (right holdings aside).

[domino harvey]

I wonder if labels like Arrow (pre-US) and MoC didn't have similar huge chunks of stock consistently going to the states, or are participants in this forum outliers?

[Robin Davies]

Are there many Criterion UK releases that haven't already been released in the US, or that aren't available in good editions already in the UK?
For me that would be their main selling point.

[Jonathan S]

That would be quite an unusual market business, wouldnt it ? Selling most of your products out of your designated market (right holdings aside).

Especially as Sony have already released some of Criterion's choices (e.g. Gilda, It Happened One Night) in much cheaper European editions. (I realise Gilda is a forthcoming Criterion UK release.)

[RossyG]

I've bought Overlord but, at £17.99, I can't see myself getting any more. I can get BFI titles for £12.99 as a rule and I find these more desirable than anything Criterion UK have so far released other than Overlord.

Had Macbeth, Grey Gardens, Speedy and L'Avventura been £12.99 I'd have preordered. As it is, I shall wait for a sale. If none comes, then so be it.

I want to see Criterion UK do well, but I can't support them at that price.

[tenia]

I wonder if labels like Arrow (pre-US) and MoC didn't have similar huge chunks of stock consistently going to the states, or are participants in this forum outliers?

I'd tend to believe that specialized boards such as this one are not representing the general audience but maybe that's not correct when talking of relatively niche labels.

[rapta]

Are there many Criterion UK releases that haven't already been released in the US, or that aren't available in good editions already in the UK?
For me that would be their main selling point.

There are no UK exclusive Criterion titles, if that's what you were asking.

Or was that a typo and you meant to put "UK" instead of "US"? In which case, Easy Rider and Dr. Strangelove have both had previous editions from Sony and been available for years (and can be bought for as little as £5). Otherwise, none of the current Criterion UK titles have been released on Blu-ray before (in the UK).

I've bought Overlord but, at £17.99, I can't see myself getting any more. I can get BFI titles for £12.99 as a rule and I find these more desirable than anything Criterion UK have so far released other than Overlord.

Had Macbeth, Grey Gardens, Speedy and L'Avventura been £12.99 I'd have preordered. As it is, I shall wait for a sale. If none comes, then so be it.

I want to see Criterion UK do well, but I can't support them at that price.

This is basically my thinking. I sometimes cancel pre-orders of titles over about £12.99 anyway, so £17.99 is out of the question unless there are some significant benefits (e.g. bonus discs, extensive booklets). However, you can still get most of the current Criterion UK titles for about £15 - from Zoom, for example, or eBay sellers - so if something does come along that I really can't wait for, I'd go out of my way to get hold of it.

So far I am very interested in some of them (In A Lonely Place, L'Avventura, Only Angels Have Wings, It Happened One Night), quite interested in others (Macbeth, Tootsie, Grey Gardens, Overlord, The In-Laws), and would be happy to double-dip a couple (Dr. Strangelove, Easy Rider), but the price is just too high to justify buying any of them straight away.

I may be swayed in a month or two if they're still £15 and there's little else I'll be getting one month, but as it stands it just so happens that Eureka, Arrow, BFI and other great labels (Signal One, Third Window, Second Sight, Artificial Eye) have much more exciting and affordable titles to offer.

Criterion UK need to announce some big-hitters, I reckon, like some much-adorned Warner Bros titles - McCabe & Mrs. Miller, Badlands, My Own Private Idaho, The Player - and some Sony ones too - Bottle Rocket, The Fisher King, The Last Picture Show (or all of the BBS Story titles), Anatomy of a Murder. These are the kinds of titles I see people requesting to current UK labels and being told "sorry the rights are with Sony / Warner", and they could be the label that both fill that gap in the market and fulfil demand for those titles. Some of these Sony and Warner titles I have on DVD with little to no extras, and some of them aren't even available on DVD anymore (or never were in the UK)!

If they could convince Disney/Buena Vista to play ball, we'd get the Wes Anderson titles over here. That would be one way of attracting attention to the label - if they're looking for sales, why not select some less niche titles for UK release?

[MichaelB]

I wonder if labels like Arrow (pre-US) and MoC didn't have similar huge chunks of stock consistently going to the states, or are participants in this forum outliers?

For the most part it's impossible to tell, because they just ship stock to retailers, so have no records themselves of what proportion of, say, Amazon UK's allocation is being shipped overseas. For identical reasons, I imagine Criterion has very little idea of what proportion of their sales are to people outside the US.

But I'd certainly assume that participants in this forum are outliers.

Oh, and I bought Speedy yesterday - it was £17.99, but that's roughly what I paid for their other Harold Lloyd discs in the B&N sales.

[Alphonse Tram]

I think the price really is the issue here. We're so used to MoC, Arrow and BFI discs dropping price or being part of excellent deals at retailers like Fopp. I think you'll find that most people are sitting tight waiting for the first promotion to begin, two for £25 for example...

Also, I think the US releases always had an air of desirability due to the fact they were not so easy to buy and if you did, you really chose your moment - like waiting for the Barnes and Noble sales etc. Now they are here in the shops, it's removed some of the mystique away form them, then add to that some decent but not earth shattering releases at a fairly high price and you're left with low sales.

I go back to my first point, I can't be alone in waiting for a special deal to come, in fact I suspect most people are doing just that!

[rapta]

Are the B&N sales 50% off the RRP or just the current price for each title? Either way, a 2 for £25 offer - or at least a 50% off the current RRP (£13.99) offer - might be the right way to go if they're looking to boost sales. Not that I expect them to do this anytime soon...but you know, if the UK sales are still low by the end of the year, it might be a wise course of action.

[Forrest Taft]

Existing Criterion importers not wanting any of the BBFC logo nonsense mucking up their collection? (I'd like to think so).

Speaking of BBFC logos: I've bought two UK releases, and I've noticed there aren't any ratings on the spine. Is that legal?

[Robin Davies]

Are there many Criterion UK releases that haven't already been released in the US, or that aren't available in good editions already in the UK?
For me that would be their main selling point.

There are no UK exclusive Criterion titles, if that's what you were asking.

Exactly. Given that Criterion releases are aimed at hardcore film buffs I would assume that most of those would be geared up with multi-region players and would already have bought the US releases, or UK releases from other companies if they were available. Obviously, Criterion UK would make more sales if they offered something genuinely new (or majorly restored) that nobody else had released anywhere.

[rapta]

Are there many Criterion UK releases that haven't already been released in the US, or that aren't available in good editions already in the UK?
For me that would be their main selling point.

There are no UK exclusive Criterion titles, if that's what you were asking.

Exactly. Given that Criterion releases are aimed at hardcore film buffs I would assume that most of those would be geared up with multi-region players and would already have bought the US releases, or UK releases from other companies if they were available. Obviously, Criterion UK would make more sales if they offered something genuinely new (or majorly restored) that nobody else had released anywhere.

Well, I wouldn't necessarily describe myself as a "hardcore" film buff, but I am into my films, and I don't own a Region Free player and don't import titles. But you're right about other UK labels releasing a lot of the same titles Criterion have in Region A, often in slightly better editions (either that or certainly more affordable with a few different extras).

Criterion UK have already said they currently don't plan to do any UK-exclusive titles, and probably would only ever consider doing so if the sales figures were strong - and we now know they're pretty disappointing, so that's out of the question really.

With that in mind, I'll re-emphasise my previous summary: Criterion UK should concentrate on releasing titles that have not been available on Blu-ray in the UK before now, namely those from Sony and Warner back catalogues (and whatever libraries they already have bought the rights to). Basically, make as much of their current catalogue available in the UK as possible, with a lean towards newer titles to keep things fresh (as they are already doing, just not with the strongest choices so far).

[peerpee]

Speaking of BBFC logos: I've bought two UK releases, and I've noticed there aren't any ratings on the spine. Is that legal?

Perfectly legal only because the BBFC changed their rules in 2012. No UK label has needed to put the BBFC certs on their spines since 2012. Would be great if every label twigged! Hopefully in a few years they'll just be on the back...

[TMDaines]

kidc85 is right. The whole launch has been pretty poor so far and smacks of arrogance if they thought their efforts were to be sufficient to clean up in a new market. If £17.99 is to be a steady long-term price, you're having a laugh. Have they not done any market research and seen that premium titles regularly retail here for far less? There's simply far too much other good stuff that offers far better value, not just in the UK but with the ease of buying from Germany, France, Italy, Spain and even the likes of Hungary too, Criterion are simply way down the pecking order.

The UK possibly has the finest bunch of labels in the world between the BFI, Arrow and MoC. Add Network into the mix with their niche, others like Artificial Eye, Soda and New Wave for modern films, and we are really quite fortunate. The only reason I'm envious of the US is because it seems the options for importing our releases are far more cost effective than us importing their releases.