Criterion Random Speculation Vol.2

[pzman84]

To get the Ray films, Criterion should threaten to release no films from India but a whole bunch of films from Pakistan if the producers do not lower their demands.

[HerrSchreck]

I think LE CRIME DE M. LANGE is quite likely as the next CC Renoir... Was the third film on the UK R2 Warner/Studio Canal set (along with GRAND ILLUSION & LA BETE HUMAINE), and JM was relatively positive about in the past...

To those out there who've seen or already own a copy of CRIME M LANGE (and I'm one), how many believe this film is an accomplishment on a par with REGLE or G. ILLUSION or RIVER or BOUDU?

I've always sorta considered this a minor Renoir, though others may feel otherwise, and I'm interested in hearing the opinions of some of our Board Regulars on this. I think the film is a good one, but not necessarily a great one. I think it falls, as an accomplishment, short of his take on LOWER DEPTHS (which, despite many moments of greatness between Jouvet & Gabin is hobbled by weak performance & a meaninglessly wandering camera... I feel certain was only justified for the CC "treatment" owing to it's pairing with Kurosawa's fascinating take on the story, just my opinion).

I ask this owing to an issue that was raised by another poster on another inflammatory thread (MABUSE) who raised a legitimate issue concerning the pro's & cons of auterism, whereby in her opinion minor films by major directors are given royal treatment, whereas masterpieces by lesser-known directors get short-shrift. In my opinion-- and this is only my opinion (I don't want this to blow up into a sniping waste of everybody's time)-- this, LANGE, is a case that in my opinion bears her standpoint out, particularly during a season of meager CC release-scheduling.

Of course I'm treating an un-formally-announced film as a Given... but I suspect that it probably is.

[ellipsis7]

LE CRIME DE M LANGE is an achievement both as drama but also as political project reflecting the attitudes he shared at the time the Popular Front on issues such as capitalist exploitation and collectivism... Renoir's mise en scene and decoupage in the film is famously innovative, as noted by Bazin and Sesonske... To me it ranks with the very best of his cinema...

[HerrSchreck]

To me it ranks with the very best of his cinema...

Could you elaborate? I don't mean to put you on the spot, nor am I trying to be deliberately adversarial-- I'm genuinely interested in hearing what it is you think is great in the film. Quoting Academia (Sesonke) sans your opinion somewhat plays into the hands of those loonies who say Auterism Is Completely Evil, that those sinister professors are programming your mind to the detriment of Undiscussed-In-The-Critical-Canon Masterpieces (not my opinion, mind you... I think Great Stuff simply get lots of Inevitable Attention; yet in this case I do think if this film were made by an unsung director, CC wouldn't give it a second look).

I know the film elucidates the dangers of human manipulation within the grey areas of free capitalism-- but this was not new or revolutionary at the time... the Soviets (obviously) had been rendering hideous incarnations of Insidious Capatitalist Ownership, obese, stubby, sniveling-- challenged by the handsome, virtuous, proletariat-basket-of-inocuousness-- for a decade-plus by the time of the film, nor was the formula new in Europe or the US.

[colinr0380]

I ask this owing to an issue that was raised by another poster on another inflammatory thread (MABUSE) who raised a legitimate issue concerning the pro's & cons of auterism, whereby in her opinion minor films by major directors are given royal treatment, whereas masterpieces by lesser-known directors get short-shrift. In my opinion-- and this is only my opinion (I don't want this to blow up into a sniping waste of everybody's time)-- this, LANGE, is a case that in my opinion bears her standpoint out, particularly during a season of meager CC release-scheduling.

I think this is an interesting issue as well. My guess is that there is some push-and-pull between wanting to create a comprehensive overview of a director's career through releases of their whole back catalogue and introducing new themes, directors and actors. I suppose Kurosawa, Bergman and Renoir are shoe-ins for this kind of treatment because the majority of their films are classics, and those that are not considered as good as others can be justified in a kind of completist, 'showing the development or twists and turns in a director's career' sense.

I guess it must also be easier to sort out rights for a number of films from the same distributor, so a bundle of Toho films, or Svenk Filmindustri releases can be considered in the same way that we speculate about a New Line or Universal license agreement, so there is the chance to buy a package including some of the 'lesser' films rather than making separate agreements for each one (?)

I suppose license agreements would have something to do with difficulties of a more diverse set of releases, so Fat Girl is probably individually agreed upon and Life Aquatic would probably not have been licensed without a longstanding relationship with Wes Anderson.

I guess also particular people at Criterion have expertise in different areas and while they might want to move into different areas it might be difficult to move out of the familiar material and re-orient themselves into working in a different area of film with the same authority. It would also stop production of new releases in the area with which they are familiar while they are taking this new filmic direction. I guess in the end it comes down to what is available, the expertise free to be concentrated on a new direction and decisions made on what things to concentrate on. I weould agree that probably a new director would be more likely to be overlooked by Criterion than those currently in the canon, but suggest it would not be due to any malicious intent to write them out.

I would agree with the argument that it leads to less diverse releases, but I am hopeful that a balance can be reached, as I also like the idea of a comprehensive view of a director's career, or the release of a number of similarly themed films where the importance of releasing the film from a film history point of view etc would take precedence over its comparative 'greatness'. My hope is that Criterion continues to do both things, as I prefer a more considered approach, allowing each release to build on or cross reference others rather than a quick release of a film with little context that can sometimes feel that it is dumped on a viewer with the attitude that they have to sort out for themselves how it fits into the film spectrum. It allows familiar themes to develop and when a new theme is introduced it resonates in a stronger way through the whole collection. I wouldn't disagree however with a little more emphasis on newer releases from around the world just to even up the balance a little!

[HerrSchreck]

Lots of very in-my-opinion valid points there, some of which I had brought up over in the MABUSE thread. What winds up happening, as in the case of Lang, perhaps the primary Auteur in the world, the guy had such a variegated career in so many genres & countries-- and studios within these countries-- that, once his name became an auteurist 'brand', reverted-rights-holders (everything from source-novel writers to banks) start coming out of the woodwork to turn a buck to license out on what they've been sitting on all these years, electrified to discover that-- voi-la!-- now, with the advent of dvd & corresponding audience-growth, they're suddenly worth something! (I'm speaking of minor works like HOUSE BY THE RIVER that have now found a global audience).

The converse effect to the package rights-deals mentioned above are lamented situations were regional directors did the vast bulk of their important work for a single studio... who-- if a satisfactory deal cannot be struck for the sum rights viz the present holder for release in the larger distribution regions-- can black-out the entire ouvre to the world.

Lang is an obviously perfect example for auterist study, via the repeated themes, some rendered to hamhanded effect Here, and with masterstrokes There... thereby making the tracing of ideas & themes in his work particularly agreeable & easily facilitated.

Speaking of, does anybody know of any RUMORS or NEWS of any DVD house planning a release of that beautiful-looking fine-grain of DER MUDE TOD aka DESTINY, seen in THE METROPOLIS CASE doc which came with that film's restored discs? This of course versus the optical-track-cropped (left hand) version put out in R1 by Image/Dave Shepard?

[justeleblanc]

Speaking of, does anybody know of any RUMORS or NEWS of any DVD house planning a release of that beautiful-looking fine-grain of DER MUDE TOD aka DESTINY, seen in THE METROPOLIS CASE doc which came with that film's restored discs? This of course versus the optical-track-cropped (left hand) version put out in R1 by Image/Dave Shepard?

I don't think DESTINY has been restored yet. Personally, I rank this film as one of Lang's best -- as do most -- and I would love to see Transit get their act together and restore this pronto.

[ellipsis7]

Re. LANGE, it's because the whole construction effortlessly carries a theme and attitude that never once appears didactic or preaching... The courtyard round which the print works and laundry etc. are set is a microcosm of community and through the interractions of the various denizens in this space, unfolds the story... The way Renoir handles the action in this unified space is remarkable, his shooting technique etc., but it never overly calls attention to itself... Similarly the power of the small revolution in the film, is in its scale and how it affects and is articulated by ordinary individuals, rather than a huge mass movement complete with overblown cant etc.. The bookends of the story conclusion, shows Renoir however unblinkered, as avenues close, but the future, for the while, still remains with possibility... Deals also with the influence of American popular culture, and the imagination and ideals of an artist set against the reality of their realisation, in the western comic book but also about the life situation he finds himself... There is evidence of feminist solidarity in the laundry, and a superb turn by Jules Berry as the charming yet and manipulative boss Batala ... Above all it questions the nature of Lange's so called crime... It's a liberal and liberating film in all senses of those words...

[HerrSchreck]

Re. LANGE, it's because the whole construction effortlessly carries a theme... It's a liberal and liberating film in all senses of those words...

Points well taken. As I've stated to others on this board & forgot to mention here are my joy in this film regarding the presence of Nadia Sibirskaia, wife of the great Dmitri Kirsanoff & lead in one of my top 5 favorite films of all time MENILMONTANT (Brumes de Automnes is no slouch either, also w Sibirsk, one of the two crown jewels-- other being Epstein's USHER, also 1928-- in the French avant garde/impressionist Weary Autumn GloomFest that continued with ROMANCE SENTIMENTALE & in the "rain" films & VAMPYR and which spread to the US w Weinbergs Autumn Fire).

Another nice face to see in LANGE is Marcel Levesque-- MAZAMETTE from LES VAMPIRES!!!... 2 decades older.

[HerrSchreck]

The whole of thirties Renoir ...There is simply no comparable body of work at this sustained level of greatness anywhere else in world cinema, even allowing for the two or three minor works (la Marseeilaise, la Vie est a Nous.) .

NOSFERATU
PHANTOM
DER LETZE MANN
TARTUFFE
FAUST
SUNRISE
4 DEVILS
CITY GIRL
TABU

Taking into account the above filmmakers start in film took place 3 yrs prior to the list-start. It just boggles the mind over & over & over again. Nothing even remotely as impressive in the cinema.

[HerrSchreck]

No argument - Renoir was life-forming to me before I discovered Murnau.

Never one prone to hyperbole I want to add:

Sternberg
Docks of New York
Last Command
All the Dietrichs
Anatahan.

with you on that one to the bitter end, my friend. Sternberg's absence on home vid is a fucking crime.

For me - at various points of my life, and right now, the Renoir canon is still the most crucial. I feel as though I'm living in a world with even less hope than the weekend partygoers of la Regle, and there is not a single director working who comes close to expressing the crystal clear perception, or the possibility of redemption or even the mere pleasure in human experience, fallibility and decency as Renoir in the thirties..

A beautiful fucking statement-- one of the most sublime (and moving) descriptions of Cinematic Love I've read, ever.

[devlinnn]

A look at Lindsay Anderson's Omnibus: John Ford hints towards Criterion having the rights to The Prisoner of Shark Island and The Iron Horse. Footage from nearly all other features were excised from the documentary.

[ellipsis7]

That however wouldn't account for part #2 of the Omnibus, presumably to be attached to a later release of a Ford film in the 2nd half of his career.. (Battle of Midway on)... I have the original doc (both parts) in off air RX. - may check if get a chance... Certainly the 40 or so minutes of the CC part #1 version, is less than the expected 52 minutes...

[Doctor Sunshine]

A look at Lindsay Anderson's Omnibus: John Ford hints towards Criterion having the rights to The Prisoner of Shark Island and The Iron Horse. Footage from nearly all other features were excised from the documentary.

Fox would have the rights, not Criterion (it had clips from Grapes of Wrath and How Green was My Valley too,) which does mark them as possibilities.

Also mentioned in the essay are, "They Were Expendable (1945), Fort Apache (1948), and The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance (1962)", "The Searchers (1956)", "Judge Priest (1934) and Steamboat Round the Bend (1935)" and Shark Island. I once had a theory that Criterion named-dropped possible future releases but now I think it's more likely that the offhanded mention of a title probably draws those films to the forefront of not only the people at Criterion's minds but also of the people who read, watch and listen to the supplements--for example I don't have Ford's oeuvre memorized--so we're more likely to become interested in these titles and maybe drop Mulvaney a line about them. Anyway, the Warner's are out and Fox would never give up any John Wayne, making Iron Horse, Judge Priest, Steamboat Round the Bend, Shark Island (sorry MoC) all distinct possibilities. Of course, none of those mesh up with part 2 of the documentary so, in closing, I have no idea what they'll release next. But I agree they'll release more Ford.

[ByMarkClark.com]

>> in her opinion minor films by major directors are given royal treatment, whereas masterpieces by lesser-known directors get short-shrift.<<

The trap of auteurism is that if you're not careful you find yourself judging films based on their director, instead of the other way around.

That said, I think LANGE would make a fine addition to the CC. But that's coming from a serious Renoir fan. Oh, and I think LANGE is superior to Renoir's LOWER DEPTHS.

[Jean-Luc Garbo]

I second that! Let's have The Crime of Monsier Lange in the Collection.

[LightBulbFilm]

I think Criterion needs to have more Fuller in the collection. I'm thinking back to back releases of I Shot Jesse James and White Dog.

[Cinephrenic]

Well there are three confirmed Fuller coming, plus Fixed Bayonets! might also follow.

[FilmFanSea]

Well there are three confirmed Fuller coming, plus Fixed Bayonets! might also follow.

And, since "Random Speculation" seems lately to have morphed into "Fantasy Island", it's worthwhile to point out that

1. White Dog was produced by Paramount
2. Paramount does not license out its films to third parties (such as Criterion)
3. Therefore, Criterion cannot and will not release White Dog on DVD

Despite a pedigree which not only includes Fuller at the helm, but Curtis Hanson as screenwriter, Ennio Morricone as composer, and an eclectic cast featuring Paul Winfield, Kristy MacNichol, Burl Ives, Paul Bartel, and Parley Baer (Mayor Stoner on the Andy Griffith Show), Paramount has shown little interest in releasing this film.

[LightBulbFilm]

Well there are three confirmed Fuller coming, plus Fixed Bayonets! might also follow.

And, since "Random Speculation" seems lately to have morphed into "Fantasy Island", it's worthwhile to point out that

1. White Dog was produced by Paramount
2. Paramount does not license out its films to third parties (such as Criterion)
3. Therefore, Criterion cannot and will not release White Dog on DVD

Despite a pedigree which not only includes Fuller at the helm, but Curtis Hanson as screenwriter, Ennio Morricone as composer, and an eclectic cast featuring Paul Winfield, Kristy MacNichol, Burl Ives, Paul Bartel, and Parley Baer (Mayor Stoner on the Andy Griffith Show), Paramount has shown little interest in releasing this film.

Didn't know Paramount didn't license their stuff out. Thanks for clarifying that in more words than needed though.

[kazantzakis]

Well there are three confirmed Fuller coming, plus Fixed Bayonets! might also follow.

And, since "Random Speculation" seems lately to have morphed into "Fantasy Island", it's worthwhile to point out that

1. White Dog was produced by Paramount
2. Paramount does not license out its films to third parties (such as Criterion)
3. Therefore, Criterion cannot and will not release White Dog on DVD

Such absolute assertions are meaningless. Whereas there may not be any precedent for something happening, it does not mean that it cannot happen. Business is driven by profit. No company binds itself to a set of rules that are never to change or circumvented. "Unlikely" and "improbable" are fair descriptions of the prospects of this happening. But "never" is way overconfident.

[pzman84]

It should be noted on F for Fake there is a 60 Minutes featurette. At the time, both CBS (which produces 60 Minutes) and Paramount were owned by Viacom. They have split since then. However, I predicted this could be the beginning of a new relationship between Paramount and Criterion.

While I have yet to be proven right, I have heard sources stating Il Conformista will be release via Criterion even though Paramount owns the rights to it. Maybe this will be the big thing of the year: a deal with Paramount. Consider this: it has been a very slow first 5 months. Something big is going to happen. This could be it.

[FilmFanSea]

Such absolute assertions are meaningless. Whereas there may not be any precedent for something happening, it does not mean that it cannot happen. Business is driven by profit. No company binds itself to a set of rules that are never to change or circumvented. "Unlikely" and "improbable" are fair descriptions of the prospects of this happening. But "never" is way overconfident.

My point is this: Why waste our time fantasizing about "unprecedented" Criterion projects that have little hope of ever happening? That was never the purpose of this thread. There are thousands of films that Criterion has a reasonable chance of licensing without invoking those controlled by Paramount, Sony, and Warner (anyone wanna speculate on the chances for a Criterion Ambersons or Greed??? Not. Gonna. Happen.).

My criticism is not necessarily directed at LightBulbFilm or any other specific member of this forum. It would just be nice to see this thread get back on track.

While I have yet to be proven right, I have heard sources stating Il Conformista will be release via Criterion even though Paramount owns the rights to it. Maybe this will be the big thing of the year: a deal with Paramount. Consider this: it has been a very slow first 5 months. Something big is going to happen. This could be it.

I'll counter with this email message from Paramount's PR director, Brenda Ciccone in August 2005:

Hi Brian.

I did some digging in to this issue and have confirmed that the information is inaccurate. Paramount will be releasing The Conformist in its original aspect ratio. We're still in the early stages of the transfer so I don't have a street date confirmed or anything but we want to make sure this film is done right equally as much as all the fans do.

I'd appreciate if you could share this correction with the members of your forums.

Best.
Brenda

I will concede that those plans could've changed in the interim (I would LOVE for Criterion to release Il Conformista), but it appears extremely unlikely.

[Cinephrenic]

I really hope Paramount licenses out The Conformist to Criterion because foreign film fans really piss them off.

[Matt]

Didn't know Paramount didn't license their stuff out.

If only there were some kind of FAQ or something here where people could find this out on their own.