678 La notte

[Ovader]

Hmm...that just makes the character a bit more ludicrous: Reading Hermann Broch and conducting dense and difficult late night/early morning conversation with people twice her age is already somewhat hard to take.

Curious whether the reference to The Sleepwalkers was written into the screenplay as a reflecting device to comment on Italian society, especially the party guests, on their declining values of humanity and pursuit of wealth/pleasure after the defeat of Italy in WW2 as referenced in the book to German society after WW1?

[Lowry_Sam]

I'm guessing that it might be because Vitti is 30 years old when this film was released & 18 stretches credibility. But that then raises issue of subtitles changing meaning of the film & director's intention...

[swo17]

Is it perhaps common in that culture for a woman lying about her age to suggest she is 22, like an American woman might lie and say she is 18?

[Sloper]

On the old MoC DVD (haven't checked the blu-ray), she says 'ventidue'; in the 1963 (English) edition of the screenplay, she says '21'; but yes, on the Criterion blu-ray it's 'diciotto'. Interesting that there are different versions...

But the key phrase is the one that follows: 'and many, many months'. She is in a state of arrested development, unable to get on with her life, but in an emotional and psychological sense she seems older and wiser than Giovanni or Lidia. She is both too young and too mature to have an affair with this man, or to involve herself too deeply in this couple's problems.

[tenia]

On the old MoC DVD (haven't checked the blu-ray), she says 'ventidue'; on the Criterion blu-ray it's 'diciotto'.

Wait, the Italian soundtracks on these 2 releases have a different dialog line there ?

[Sloper]

Yes - maybe 'diciotto' was getting incredulous laughs from some audiences, drowning out the next part of the line, so they changed it?

[Never Cursed]

Do her lip movements match with "ventidue" or "diciotto?"

[Sloper]

Looks like 'diciotto' to me, but I can't be sure.

[Lowry_Sam]

Just rewatched. Her lips definitely say "diciotto". The thing about it is with the delay & second half "multi multi mesi," it doesn't really matter if it's 18 or 22, because the actual meaning of what she is saying is that she is stating she is young but knows she is in fact much older.

[ellipsis7]

In a selection of published scripts in Italian & French (Einaudi, L'Avant Scene Cinema & Buchet Chastel) Valentina declares herself variously to be 20, 21 & 22, and several months each... In unpublished scripts & treatments she is identified as the independent minded attractive adult daughter of the industrialist, a description which suffices, although I don't have the exact dialogue line intended...

[All the Best People]

In which scene is this line? I have the English translation of the screenplay from a collection published in 1963, but can't locate the equivalent line.

[Lowry_Sam]

It's towards the end of the film, when Monica Vitti & Jeanne Moreau are together and Monica raises the issue of what she was doing with Jeanne's husband (Marcello Mastroianni), Jeanne says she doesn't want to know, but then asks Monica her age.

[All the Best People]

Oh, there it is. In this translation: "Twenty-one. Plus many months more."

[TMDaines]

That’s a cool find. Poor on whoever did Criterion’s subtitles and QC to not catch that. I wonder if there are any other subtle differences between different prints.

[T!me]

After rewatching most of 60s and 70s Antonioni, I finally came around to watch "La notte" again a few days ago. For the longest time I believed it to be the least of the alienation trilogy but now it eclipses L'avventura - not by much tho and the tides could turn again by the time I come around to watch them again. I really do hope that someday somebody will release a proper UHD set for these films but I'm afraid I'll have to wait a couple more years for that to happen.

Now, in light of its placement on the S&S directors list, I asked myself why this currently seems to be the Antonioni most people are driven to (after L'avventura which has the bonus of its filmhistoric importance).

[artfilmfan]

L’avventura used to be my favorite Antonioni film, too. But after seeing it with the beautiful transfer on the MoC DVD, La notte moved ahead of L’avvevtura and replaced it as my favorite Antonioni film. La notte is now on my list of top-ten favorite films.

[ellipsis7]

New restoration of LA NOTTE debuting at upcoming Venice Film Festival...