109, 930-935 Dietrich & von Sternberg in Hollywood

[Michael Kerpan]

Television interview with Dietrich from 1971 (haven't watched this one yet - will update when I have)

I thought this was quite interesting.

[domino harvey]

I'm a fan of Adrian Martin's commentaries and not the video essays he makes with his partner. I haven't seen this one, but I've seen enough other ones to skip it

[cdnchris]

I actually didn't mind the Martin essay, in theory at least. But it was way too long for being simply a collection of clips.

[zedz]

I've just made my way through the extras on this set, and I'd agree with Michael and the Werewolf's assessments. The Swedish TV interview is mostly revealing for Dietrich's gentle persona, something of an unusual and refreshing vibe for a celebrity interview. It also has an intro where a very stiff elderly Swede says to another very stiff elderly Swede, "Well, this is very exciting, Sven."

The Martin extra was so bad and lazy that after five minutes I was saying to myself "Somebody actually got paid for this?" The shocking twist at the end turned that into "Adrian Martin got paid for this!?" I generally dislike this kind of taxonomic auteurism intensely. It's facile and swamped in confirmation bias. (There was a hilariously stupid essay in an MoC release once which argued that the moon in The Woman in the Moon was round because Fritz Lang had a thing for circles.) There are a couple of insightful juxtapositions in the overlong mishmash, but they're surrounded by so much junk scholarship they feel like stopped-clock coincidence.

The extras really peter out on the later discs and could have been better deployed (That Hollywood and Fashion film directly relates to The Devil Is a Woman, yet it's placed on the Blonde Venus disc), and it's disappointing that there aren't more film-specific extras. Lots of good general information, but they tend to condense the films into one indistinguishable mass rather than teasing out what makes them unique. The Shanghai Express / Orientalism extra is an exception and it works really well. Criterion seriously couldn't find anybody who wanted to talk about The Scarlet Empress?

[GoodOldNeon]

Was The Fashion Side of Hollywood actually directed by von Sternberg? IMDB says yes, with an unsourced bit of trivia saying this was the last time Dietrich and von Sternberg worked together, but of course there is no director credit in the film itself.

[Werewolf by Night]

The extras really peter out on the later discs and could have been better deployed (That Hollywood and Fashion film directly relates to The Devil Is a Woman, yet it's placed on the Blonde Venus disc), and it's disappointing that there aren't more film-specific extras.

I was trying to figure out the rationale for the placement of the extras on each disc. I understand, for example, wanting to put all the costume-related extras together, but not whey they appear on Blonde Venus (in which Dietrich wears a single costume for about half the running time. Or why more extras do not appear on the disc with the shortest feature (The Devil is a Woman).

I do appreciate that the extras are, for the most part, well-curated. It's easy to get through a single feature and the supplements on the same disc in an evening, and I appreciate that. I'm simply not interested in an exhaustive catalog of supplements (especially ones that point out the obvious). But the fact that they couldn't get someone like Guy Maddin to rhapsodize on video about The Scarlet Empress for fifteen minutes seems like a gross omission.

I do hope they include Homay King on more future releases, though. She seems like she'd be a fabulous professor to take a class with.

[Werewolf by Night]

Was The Fashion Side of Hollywood actually directed by von Sternberg? IMDB says yes, with an unsourced bit of trivia saying this was the last time Dietrich and von Sternberg worked together, but of course there is no director credit in the film itself.

Given that nothing on the disc or packaging credits Sternberg with having directed it, I'd venture to guess that there's no documentation available to suggest that he did. But I'm sure he would let no one else conduct his lighting and costume tests, and that's about half of what the short consists of, so I suppose you could say he probably directed at least some of it. How's that for a definitive answer?

[whaleallright]

I'm a fan of Adrian Martin's commentaries and not the video essays he makes with his partner. I haven't seen this one, but I've seen enough other ones to skip it

I have to say, Adrian Martin seems a decently articulate repackager of received auteurist wisdom, and a kind of self-appointed keeper of the "mise en scène criticism" flame, but not much more. I've never read or heard anything by him that amounted to an insight or revelation, or even an unfamiliar historical observation. For an example beyond his vapid comments on the Sternberg set, his video essays on Hou Hsiao Hsien's films are pretty much what any mildly cineliterate person could come up with after reading a few basic essays on Hou (that is, much of it is highly derivative of better writing on Hou). There are lots of people like this in academia, but none as seemingly ubiquitous as Martin. Indeed, there aren't many film critics of international renown who have, to my eyes, written so much and said so little. His heart seems to be in the right place, and nothing of what I've read is particularly objectionable, but neither is it interesting. I'm willing to believe there's stuff he's put out there that's more original than what I've encountered, but count me as a skeptic.

[domino harvey]

You mention none of his commentaries, the thing I specifically praised him for. Have you heard any of those? His track for Le gai savoir is the best ever recorded for a Godard film and full of insights into one of the most difficult and user unfriendly movies imaginable, though all of his Godard commentaries are excellent.

[whaleallright]

That's good to hear! I'll try that one.

I've been encountering his written essays for 15 years or more, but the only of his commentaries I've listened to straight through are, to my recollection, those for Alice in the Cities, There's Always Tomorrow, and Good Morning, all of which struck me as being sort-of decent introductions to the received wisdom on the films/filmmakers (not all of which is wrong!) but little more. A fresh perspective on Sirk's melodramas, for example, is really needed, and he didn't offer it...

[domino harvey]

I haven't heard any of those, so I can't comment, but I thought, apart from his Godard commentaries, his commentary on Les cousins is also excellent at providing a non-fawning and objective look at Chabrol's career. I think he does his research and gets hired for films that are not necessarily his favorites, which leads to varying quality, and may account for him regurgitating common wisdom on something like Sirk rather than coming to his own conclusions as in his Godard tracks

[zedz]

I think Martin is particularly good at summing up current scholarship on particular filmmakers and films. As Domino says, he does his research and is meticulous about crediting his sources. The issues I sometimes have with his commentaries is that he a) often seem reluctant to critique the work of other academics, even when it seems dodgy or counter to his own position, and b) sometimes doesn't get beyond summing up current scholarship. When he's venturing critically on his own I find him a lot more interesting.

[Werewolf by Night]

I added my thoughts on the TV interview above. Good stuff. Dietrich’s warmth reminded me of an anecdote about her from Rosemary Clooney’s autobiography. The two were good friends (and recorded a couple songs together). When Clooney was divorcing José Ferrer and fell into a deep depression, Dietrich would come over to make dinner and clean Clooney’s house for her. She particularly enjoyed scrubbing the floors, which she found relaxing. I had sort of a hard time believing that when reading it in print, but Dietrich absolutely comes across in this interview as someone who would do that for a good friend.

[zedz]

I added my thoughts on the TV interview above. Good stuff. Dietrich’s warmth reminded me of an anecdote about her from Rosemary Clooney’s autobiography. The two were good friends (and recorded a couple songs together). When Clooney was divorcing José Ferrer and fell into a deep depression, Dietrich would come over to make dinner and clean Clooney’s house for her. She particularly enjoyed scrubbing the floors, which she found relaxing. I had sort of a hard time believing that when reading it in print, but Dietrich absolutely comes across in this interview as someone who would do that for a good friend.

I hadn't heard that anecdote, but I had heard a similar one (was it from Orson Welles?) that Dietrich was happiest when she was just being a down-to-earth Hausfrau, cooking dinner for friends or doing housework.

[movielocke]

I also loved the homay king extra, highlight of the set. The Janet Bernstein interview on Morocco I fell asleep after about twenty minutes, so I only missed about twenty minutes!

The television interview is also excellent.

Having finally watched blonde Venus and devil is a woman and rewatched Scarlett empress I was surprised my opinion of the latter has remained unchanged (i’ll sum it up as “meh”).

The other two are set highlights, excellent films I wish I watched them fifteen years ago instead of giving up after back to back Morocco and empress.

So that makes the three new to me films in the set all ones that I more or less really liked and outright enjoyed. I was pleasantly surprised over all.

[kcota17]

I haven’t watched all of the extras yet so I don’t know if this is ever talked about but I can’t find an answer anywhere: does anyone know if there was anything between Dietrich and Von Sternberg or anything that contributed to them not working again ever?

It’s obvious that he was in love with her, but what caused their collaborations to end? Was it as simple as The Devil is a Woman just not doing well? Did they have a falling out? Was Dietrich not fond of his affection? Did the studios not want to work anymore?

It just seems like such a blunt end to such a long string of tight collaborations that seems so unanswered.

[knives]

If memory serves von Sternberg had burnt a lot of bridges by that point plus his films made no money. If you check his CV you'll see his career fell dormant not too long after their last collab.

[Drucker]

Yes, I got the impression (from the extras?) that Scarlett Empress and Devil Is A Woman both were money-losers, and then his contract was up?

[Werewolf by Night]

For me the value is in the transfers which are wonderful to have.

Same here, and I'm sure that's where most of the budget went.

[Lowry_Sam]

does anyone know if there was anything between Dietrich and Von Sternberg or anything that contributed to them not working again ever?

Can't recall which documentary or book presents the definitive take on their relationship, but I thought it was pretty well known that von Sternberg's obsession w/ Marlene was one way, as she had very little interest in him.....or any man, but only assumed the role to further her career...and The Devil Is A Woman basically sums up their relationship.

[domino harvey]

If one goes by the incredible and incredibly libelous softcore porn film adaptation of Hollywood Babylon from the 70s, they both were gay and brought home men and women for each other. This is not a reliable primary, secondary, or tertiary source though

[NABOB OF NOWHERE]

If one goes by the incredible and incredibly libelous softcore porn film adaptation of Hollywood Babylon from the 70s, they both were gay and brought home men and women for each other. This is not a reliable primary, secondary, or tertiary source though

Whilst most likely salacious gossip like the rest of the source material, albeit rather beguiling. I was wondering how might that work in practice?
Like you're a guy hit on by Marlene Dietrich no less but when you get back to the den there's Von Sternberg in his bathrobe waiting for you. What do you do? .... make the best of a bad job?

[whaleallright]

who wouldn't?

[zedz]

who wouldn't?

"Uh, Joe, do you mind if we turn the creepy clown picture towards the wall?"

[domino harvey]

Pretty sure that was taken in Kristen Bell's house on the Good Place