Criterion Newsletter: Clues and More, Volume Four

[ianungstad]

There were rumors from back in 2017 that Criterion was going to release Godard's King Lear. Woody Allen appears in the film. Other cameos include Norman Mailer, Leo Carax, etc. Coppola isn't in it but could it be one of the other actors/cameos from the film? The poster has an image of Godard with a bushy beard.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093349/me ... 1415587328

[domino harvey]

I was thinking maybe Philippe de Broca and Alan Bates for King of Hearts, but there probably has to be significance that there's two of them imagining it and in the film only Bates is thought to be king by the escaped asylum patients.

Already out from Cohen. And just to restate swo’s question, which everyone should be asking before making guesses: is this what you’d draw to clue that?

[Ovader]

HAMMETT as Coppola produced the film starring Frederic Forrest?

[swo17]

It's Burroughs and Ginsburg. Work from there.

It would be a good clue for something called Thinking Beats, but that's not a movie

[Donald Brown]

There's apparently a rap documentary called Beat Kings, but something tells me that's not it.

[Minkin]

Both Burroughs & Ginsberg are in Chappaqua, which could've been a Criterion pick from Wellspring. But no idea how it would fit into the rest of the clue.

I'm impressed - we haven't been this stumped for a few years! And so far, none of the guesses really standout.

[tarpilot]

Gus Van Sant has adapted the work of both for short films: Discipline of D.E. from a Burroughs essay and a music video of sorts for Ginsberg's "Ballad of the Skeletons"

[bugsy_pal]

I think it's Burroughs and Ginsberg too, but no idea what film we could be talking about.

My initial thought was that the guy on the left was Buck Henry, but nothing in his filmography seems to fit...

[CSM126]

il Sorpasso

[Rayon Vert]

Just to add to the confusion, Coppola (executive) produced the Waller Salles-directed adaptation of On The Road, in which Ginsberg and Burroughs are present as characters, but I don't see how this could be a clue for that.

The Beat Generation on film

[Gregory]

Again, bearded Ginsberg was bald-pated and never wore a hairpiece. So how could that be seen as bearing even a passing resemblance to him?

[Adam X]

Nor does the guy on the left look like Burroughs.

[The Narrator Returns]

Oh, I get it, it's a sailboat!

[movielocke]

Oh, I get it, it's a sailboat!

It’s a schooner!

[movielocke]

Lean Cowherd was probably the clue that took the longest, this may take the crown, Holzhauer style.

[justeleblanc]

Looks like Soderbergh and Coppola.

[jedgeco]

Skimming the last couple pages, I don’t think I’ve seen anybody note that the guy on the left is awake and the one on the right appears to be sleeping in both pictures, which seems deliberate enough to mean something.

[Jgh8xxx]

I have to say this seems, to me, to so obviously be WHEN WE WERE KINGS that I am shocked about how much debate it has inspired.

Q. What's the only thing different about the men in the two depictions?

A. In one depiction, they are wearing crowns. ie. they are kings. And they're having a memory of being kings, at that.

And we are talking about an Oscar-winning, Sundance, LAFCA, Critics Choice, NYFCC, NSFC, Cinema Eye and Spirit Award-winning documentary here.

And oh, hey look! Its rights were most recently with Gramercy Pictures, just like...

BEFORE THE RAIN
KING OF THE HILL
LA HAINE
THE LAST DAYS OF DISCO
SHALLOW GRAVE

I think we can move along here folks...

[domino harvey]

They’re having a memory of wearing the identical outfits and holding the identical poses? And that they’re two very specific-looking dudes has no bearing? There’s a reason this isn’t “obviously” it. Several titles that Criterion could release have been floated as possibilities, that doesn’t serve as evidence of a solution

[Jgh8xxx]

They’re having a memory of wearing the identical outfits and holding the identical poses? And that they’re two very specific-looking dudes has no bearing? There’s a reason this isn’t “obviously” it. Several titles that Criterion could release have been floated as possibilities, that doesn’t serve as evidence of a solution

I said to me it was obvious. I don't agree that any other solution here has been presented that makes more sense. I also believe that last month's CLUNY BROWN clue has everyone focusing a bit too much on the physical appearance of the characters, which is very rarely a factor in the solution to clues.

We shall see in (hopefully only a few months time) what the truth is

[mteller]

Nor does the guy on the left look like Burroughs.

Yeah he does. Except for the coat. Never seen a picture of Burroughs in a coat like that, and it's a very specific garment.

They do both appear slightly happier in their thoughts, but who knows whether that means anything or is just a slight accidental variation.

[domino harvey]

I said to me it was obvious. I don't agree that any other solution here has been presented that makes more sense.

I don’t think there’s been a single likely guess yet, period, so I don’t think we’re as far apart on this as it may seem!

[mteller]

I also believe that last month's CLUNY BROWN clue has everyone focusing a bit too much on the physical appearance of the characters, which is very rarely a factor in the solution to clues.

You're wrong about that. Almost every time a person is rendered in a clue, it's meant to be a specific person. When it's not (e.g., To Sleep With Anger), the person is drawn in a very non-descript, generic fashion. These two guys have very distinctive features and there's also that coat. If you were to draw what are supposed to be two random anypeople, would you give them both glasses?

[Rayon Vert]

I don't know if these details have any significance:
- they both have arms crossed (and one legs)
- they have reversed colors (black top, white bottom and vice versa)
- they don't appear to wear shoes?

[swo17]

I said to me it was obvious. I don't agree that any other solution here has been presented that makes more sense.

I don’t think there’s been a single likely guess yet, period, so I don’t think we’re as far apart on this as it may seem!

I'll concede that When We Were Kings was the first thing that came to my mind, and that it very well could be the answer and it's just not a very good clue