Criterion Newsletter: Clues and More, Volume Four

[movielocke]

I also thought of when we were Kings first, but immediately discarded it since the drawing is not if foreman and Ali.

[Lemdog]

I notice the stars on the crowns are different. I don't know how that helps.
Wenders and Coppola might equal Hammett.

[Blutarsky]

Could this mind **** be a subtle clue to a forthcoming Inland Empire release in that nobody matters

[dda1996a]

I notice the stars on the crowns are different. I don't know how that helps.
Wenders and Coppola might equal Hammett.

It doesn't look like Wenders though. And he never wore a hat as well.

[Graphist]

I am probably way, way off but that guy in the hat looks like Chip Kidd, a famous book designer.…

Chip Kidd Coppola?… Maybe some homophone, anagram?

[fdm]

How about Marie Antoinette?

[Malickite]

Is there some obscure film called It's the Thought That Counts that I'm not aware of, 'cause that would be perfect.

[jedgeco]

After further research, I think a Leon Gast box set of When We Were Kings and The Grateful Dead Movie is the only thing that comes closest to making any sense (despite that hair being much too tame for Jerry Garcia, and Leon Gast not being an instantly recognizable celebrity), but I'm not real happy about it, and really hope that someone here has a eureka! moment

[dda1996a]

But Garcia was the clue for Dead Man, and look how different he looked there. Seems wrong imo

[locustsinthesky]

I think we need to keep in mind that typically when a famous person is represented in these clues, it's not because they're involved in the movie but because their name is, or a pun involving their name is (Clooney Brown, Notorious BIG, Dead Man, Tom Jones). So if we could positively identify the two men, it would most likely be a pun involving their names combined+thinking/dreaming+crowns/kings that would reveal the answer.

[ptatler]

Coppola on a bench totally conjures up THE CONVERSATION. However, neither man is conversing so I can't really stick to that landing.

[KJones77]

Napoleon?

Coppola NAPping -> Francis/France's monarch -> LEON (Gast? or some other Leon?)

[mteller]

omg stop saying it's Leon Gast. He's a recognizable figure to, what, maybe 500-1000 people in the world? How many of us DIDN'T have to Google image search him? And it doesn't even look that much like him. I don't see one photo of him in a hat.

[Roscoe]

I've seen it suggested that the Coppola figure on the bench is actually Ali, from ALI: FEAR EATS THE SOUL, which kind of makes sense in the WHEN WE WERE KINGS way...

[KJones77]

I've seen it suggested that the Coppola figure on the bench is actually Ali, from ALI: FEAR EATS THE SOUL, which kind of makes sense in the WHEN WE WERE KINGS way...

I don't remember him wearing glasses though?

[MongooseCmr]

If that is a different “Ali” who could the alternate “Foreman” be? I’m convinced that’s the film in all but the characters drawn and that seems like the key here

[bobbymilk]

If that is a different “Ali” who could the alternate “Foreman” be? I’m convinced that’s the film in all but the characters drawn and that seems like the key here

Milos Forman. But I agree, Ali didn't wear glasses in the movie.

[soundchaser]

My Ali suggestion on the last page was only semi-serious, and if he definitely didn't wear glasses in the film (as I said, I don't remember), then I disavow it wholly.

[Luke M]

I have to say this seems, to me, to so obviously be WHEN WE WERE KINGS that I am shocked about how much debate it has inspired.

Q. What's the only thing different about the men in the two depictions?

A. In one depiction, they are wearing crowns. ie. they are kings. And they're having a memory of being kings, at that.

And we are talking about an Oscar-winning, Sundance, LAFCA, Critics Choice, NYFCC, NSFC, Cinema Eye and Spirit Award-winning documentary here.

And oh, hey look! Its rights were most recently with Gramercy Pictures, just like...

BEFORE THE RAIN
KING OF THE HILL
LA HAINE
THE LAST DAYS OF DISCO
SHALLOW GRAVE

I think we can move along here folks...

I also thought this was an open and shut case of When We Were Kings and nothing posted after has been nearly as compelling.

[movielocke]

I think we need to keep in mind that typically when a famous person is represented in these clues, it's not because they're involved in the movie but because their name is, or a pun involving their name is (Clooney Brown, Notorious BIG, Dead Man, Tom Jones). So if we could positively identify the two men, it would most likely be a pun involving their names combined+thinking/dreaming+crowns/kings that would reveal the answer.

So we have “Coppola guys” = “Couple of guys”

Couple of dreams?

Couple of Kings?

[movielocke]

On the Napoleon front, did Coppola’s father who did the score for Napoleon look like the guy on the left?

[soundchaser]

Not in the slightest:

[DeprongMori]

And just to restate swo’s question, which everyone should be asking before making guesses: is this what you’d draw to clue that?

This is my guiding principle for assessing any of my guesses.

I am totally stumped on this one, which I suspect will have us all slapping our foreheads in a few months time when it is revealed.

[BigMack3000]

But Garcia was the clue for Dead Man, and look how different he looked there. Seems wrong imo

Yes, but this is much closer to how he looks in the doc.

I'll add to the crazy, and say that the leather jacket is for the Hell's Angel doc, and the hat is similar to one Desi Arnez would wear, who is featured in Gast's Salsa documentary. Also, in between those two docs was one on BB King.

Edit: I'll go even further into the void. It'll be his first 8 documentaries (His 8 pointed star) ending with When We Were Kings. The Grateful Dead doc was his 5th (Jerry Garcia's 5 pointed star).

[mteller]

Finally, the cinephile community can stop clamoring for the much-anticipated Leon Gast box set.