Once Upon a Time... in Hollywood (Quentin Tarantino, 2019)

[mfunk9786]

Should we just ditch the ellipsis for forum purposes as a way of resolving this once and for all?

[swo17]

I'm not necessarily trying to change this thread's title, just get comfortable with what I'm going to call this thing for the rest of my life

[spectre]

I flat out reject IMDb's "Once Upon a Time ... in Hollywood"

How come? Are spaced ellipses not standard in the US? I would have thought that was the only legitimate option here.

(But wait, doesn't the ellipsis come after the 'in' in the poster + trailer?)

[black&huge]

I think swo was jokingly referencing this:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nyErR1FS1_0

[swo17]

I wasn't but I like the connection

[Luke M]

Re: the Great Escape

Spoiler

I saw the movie again tonight, in the scene Rick mentions that he never auditioned for the part nor met the director John Sturges.

On second viewing, I appreciated the Sharon Tate scenes a great deal more.

[black&huge]

Re: the Great Escape

Spoiler

I saw the movie again tonight, in the scene Rick mentions that he never auditioned for the part nor met the director John Sturges.

On second viewing, I appreciated the Sharon Tate scenes a great deal more.

Regarding the specific in your spoiler: Yep I only caught this on my second viewing as well

[swo17]

Spoiler

I'm well aware and I stand by my reading of that scene. He's lying because he's embarrassed about it.

[Cold Bishop]

I must admit I leaned towards swo interpretation; the fact that Rick is clearly awkward in the role and his performance, versus his triumph later, kind of pulls it away from fantasy projection.

[Stefan Andersson]

Extensive listing of the film´s pop-culture references

[mfunk9786]

I'm really fascinated by the use of visual effects in this, which were supervised by the great John Dykstra.
In particular, one sequence

Spoiler

with Dalton mentally casting himself inside of The Great Escape is very reminiscent of Forrest Gump, a film that Tarantino is a huge admirer of

Spoiler

I took this scene a different way--in the reality of this film, Dalton was actually originally cast in The Great Escape and shot at least that one scene for it but they decided he wasn't working and recast him with McQueen, to Dalton's great shame

Spoiler

I don't know how I missed your post of this reading the first time around, but yeah, this seems like as good as reading as any. That said, I find it hard to believe that Dalton could keep that kind of secret from the press, let alone the rest of the acting community.

[Murdoch]

Spoiler

I'm well aware and I stand by my reading of that scene. He's lying because he's embarrassed about it.

This is how I read it. Rick looks visibly uncomfortable talking about the movie and

Spoiler

wouldn't it be more embarrassing for an actor to have filmed your scenes for a movie then the director decides you're not right for the role after going through the painstaking process of shooting a scene? That certainly seems much worse to me than not getting a part.

[aox]

You'd have to ask Erik Stoltz and Robert Zemeckis.

[Luke M]

I must admit I leaned towards swo interpretation; the fact that Rick is clearly awkward in the role and his performance, versus his triumph later, kind of pulls it away from fantasy projection.

Spoiler

My take is that it's a fantasy like Cliff's fantasy about Bruce Lee. I like how the scene contrasts the Sharon Tate movie theater scene where that isn't shown with Margot Robbie because it's real and not a fantasy. Anyway, that's my interpretation.

[swo17]

Spoiler

The Bruce Lee scene isn't a fantasy either, other than in the sense that this is a movie and it literally didn't happen in real life

[mfunk9786]

Agreed - this stance is driving me crazy, there is zero evidence that any scene in this film is represented to the viewer as merely a daydream

[swo17]

Spoiler

Also, the point of not inserting Robbie into the Tate film is out of respect for her/to help rehabilitate her public image as more than just a murder victim, which is sort of the whole point of the entire movie

[mfunk9786]

Tarantino has now done what I would classify as "major" revisionist histories three times, four if you count The Hateful Eight (which I wouldn't, really) - and not one of them was constructed around any kind of "it was all a dream!" fantasy. This one isn't either. What we are watching is occurring straight-ahead within the universe of the film.

Spoiler

Even after Cliff smokes the acid dipped cigarette, we never see anything from his POV

[Luke M]

I choose to believe in the fantasy portions of the movie cause otherwise all the criticism about Lee's portrayal are indeed correct.

[Brian C]

I don’t think that the Lee sequence can possibly be read as a “fantasy” but it is straightforwardly presented as Cliff’s own personal flashback and therefore from his point of view. So it’s not unreasonable to think that we’re seeing it the way he remembers it, and as with anyone’s memory, it’s fair to question the reliability of the rememberer.

[mfunk9786]

But Cliff isn't present for half of the flashback, so how is it presented as his own personal flashback? Were it his, we wouldn't see inside the trailer.

[Brian C]

Rick told him about the conversation so he remembers it that way.

[mfunk9786]

Which we don't see, nor do we hear alluded to - so I'll choose not to make up my own stories so I don't have to feel problematic for liking something (I thought the Lee scene was delightful in any context) and take the one I've been given

[swo17]

I agree and I'm good with Walter Chaw's take that finding the Lee scene "problematic" is itself racist.

I'm glad a clearly talented Asian man got to have a distinctive role in such a high profile film portraying a legend that he has idolized since his youth. I am sorry Shannon Lee felt uncomfortable in the theater though.

[Brian C]

Which we don't see, nor do we hear alluded to - so I'll choose not to make up my own stories so I don't have to feel problematic for liking something (I thought the Lee scene was delightful in any context) and take the one I've been given

Relax, I don’t think you or anyone else has to feel problematic about it either way, and I liked the scene too.

But to not see it as Cliff’s memory, you have to ignore that it’s straightforwardly presented that way. He thinks about Rick telling him that it was pointless asking for work, then he stares out into space, then we get the whole flashback sequence, then back to the present, where Cliff chuckles to himself and says, “that’s about right” in reference to it being pointless to ask about work for him.

What is that if not a memory? He all but scratches his chin and says, “I remember it like it was yesterday!” over wavy flashback lines. It’s not really hugely important, and it may even be that Tarantino didn’t really think through this aspect of the film’s structure as a result. But people have two legs to stand on if they want to interpret it as a subjective scene - at best it’s ambiguous.