Criterion Discussion and Random Speculation Volume 7

[Rupert Pupkin]

got a mail from Criterion :
https://www.criterionchannel.com/erotic ... -seduction

From France I can not see The Last Seduction.

I have the Network Blu-Ray; do you think that the stream on Criterion web site is the same transfer than the one from the UK and US BR (with compression artefacts during all the smoke sequence in the bar) ? Or can we hope a Criterion "emotional rescue" ? [-o<

[tenia]

Not sure comparing poor BD compression with streaming compression is the best way to see which one is better.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Not sure comparing poor BD compression with streaming compression is the best way to see which one is better.

at least if they use a totally different transfer or new restoration, even despite the compression we would see a difference.
If this is the same transfer than the BR UK Network or US then we will se the same result, in worse.

for instance, in their web Criterion page, when they announce a new restoration, upcoming BR or UHD, sometimes they don't put the trailer but an excerpt of the movie, and generally that's the restoration they will use. That was the case for Exotica for instance (you already could tell the difference of color grading and details with the Artificial Eye BR).

[tenia]

What I meant is that your post makes it look like the compression is the biggest issue, and possibly baked-in the restoration, while it's most likely disc-compression-related, and I'm not sure a stream will do better.
You might also have a newer restoration poorly encoded and with artefacts in the smoke.

[EddieLarkin]

The Network Blu-ray is so ridiculously fucked compression wise (quite possibly the worst encoded disc of all time??), it's literally YouTube level bad almost throughout. A competent encoded stream could perhaps be better?

[tenia]

It might. I just believe that digital and physical shouldn't be compared in terms of compression expectations overall, and the original post made it look to me as if Rupert was hoping for Criterion's "emotional rescue" to be encode-related.

[dwk]

The Last Seduction is owned by ITC. Which means that Shout Factory will take over the US rights when Scorpion's license expires. So, at best, Shout does a new transfer and sells it as a limited site exclusive, or, at worst, they reuse the current transfer and sell it as a limited site exclusive.

[EddieLarkin]

I recall that Scorpion sat on the title for years trying to get a new master done but were unsuccessful because no usable elements are available in the US, and ITV would not allow them access to the elements in the UK.

Ironically Scorpion could have done a lot to salvage the film just by encoding it properly but they buggered that up too, though not quite as badly as Network.

So if this ever does get a decent release it sounds like it would have to come again via ITV/Network.

[beamish14]

I recall that Scorpion sat on the title for years trying to get a new master done but were unsuccessful because no usable elements are available in the US, and ITV would not allow them access to the elements in the UK.

Ironically Scorpion could have done a lot to salvage the film just by encoding it properly but they buggered that up too, though not quite as badly as Network.

So if this ever does get a decent release it sounds like it would have to come again via ITV/Network.

It’s so sad that the original camera negative is gone, but I guess I shouldn’t be surprised that the same fate befell Tales from the Hood (which was probably lost when it changed ownership) and Dog Soldiers’ went missing for over a decade.

[Rupert Pupkin]

It might. I just believe that digital and physical shouldn't be compared in terms of compression expectations overall, and the original post made it look to me as if Rupert was hoping for Criterion's "emotional rescue" to be encode-related.

I don't know at one point of the process they wen't wrong, but it's not a matter of bitrate; I talk about compression because it looks like there are some micro-blocks pixels, but they certainly did fuck up during the encoding and perhaps at an earlier stage of the restoration process (which is a shame because at some point the picture looks really good in terms of details and photography; as good as it can look terrible in some other scenes. A movie with a photography with a lot of smoke and... sweat like "Body Heat" does not show these flaws). Sometimes Criterion was able to get a pre-encoding or "untempered" HD master and we got a better release than the French one ("Bande à Part" by J-L Godard for instance, if I remember well, was slightly better).

[goblinfootballs]

Janus tweeted a shot from Querelle today - clue or wishful thinking?

[FrauBlucher]

Janus just tweeted a screenshot of the 1946 Postman Always Tings Twice. The image is Garfield sitting in the back seat of the car ready to hit Kellaway on the head. With the word “mood” underneath. I find the tweet odd for Janus. I usually don’t think their tweets mean anything more than feeling but I wonder if this one has significance of something we’ll know about Monday

[The Fanciful Norwegian]

Janus tweeted a shot from Querelle today - clue or wishful thinking?

Janus has had Querelle for a long time, but it's only sometime within the last couple of months that this appeared on their website. (It wasn't there as of March 21, per the Wayback Machine.) A DCP credited to Janus screened at the end of April in Los Angeles. I think it's a good assumption that this is on the way.

[therewillbeblus]

Hope it's as part of a Fassbinder box - would be a strange independent release, especially coming before a few more marketable others Criterion has had forever (i.e. Chinese Roulette)

[Adam X]

I hope it’s not. It’s got a chance of being the first English-friendly release that’s properly subtitled. It’s a really good film that deserves more than being buried in a box of films Arrow’s already released.

[therewillbeblus]

I don’t really want them releasing some giant comprehensive Fassbinder set either, since I’m not going to double dip on all the titles I own, but it’d be cool if it was part of a new slew of films from his mid-late period not yet released on blu. Though criterion doesn’t really do random collections like Arrow, so that’s just wishful thinking on my part

[Matt]

A comprehensive set, even if it didn’t include the long-form TV work, would have to be on a scale between the Varda set and the Bergman set, just massive. But I can’t imagine what other kind of set Querelle would make sense in. If a “Late Fassbinder” set, where would it begin? Maybe a “Fassbinder International” set that includes only his films with international casts starting with Chinese Roulette? That could work but seems awkward.

Best just to release it on its own so I don’t feel obligated to buy it at all.

[Adam X]

Well that way we’d both get want we want. Seems like a win-win to me.

I mean, I’d love it if they cobbled together a boxset of all of Fassbinder’s films not on English-friendly BD + Querelle, but that has as much chance of happening as domino harvey coming round to the joys of Jess Franco.

[dwk]

Short clip of Solondz confirming Criterion is working on Happiness and, maybe, Palindromes

[yoloswegmaster]

Short clip of Solondz confirming Criterion is working on Happiness and, maybe, Palindromes

You would think that a direct confirmation for an upcoming release of Happiness would be big news around here (especially when many users were adamant that Criterion would never release it) but apparently not.

[therewillbeblus]

Short clip of Solondz confirming Criterion is working on Happiness and, maybe, Palindromes

You would think that a direct confirmation for an upcoming release of Happiness would be big news around here (especially when many users were adamant that Criterion would never release it) but it's apparently not.

I'll believe it when I see it. Guy Maddin also confirmed that Criterion was working on a blu-ray upgrade of Brand Upon the Brain! to be released within the year like four years ago, and I feel like there are many more examples of directors giving "direct confirmation" of a release that Criterion inevitably puts on the backburner in favor of countless other priorities. But I'll be thrilled if this one is real.

[swo17]

I mean, I'm thrilled as well but I also feel nothing

[CSM126]

Remember that time Mike Figgis confirmed a criterion edition of Leaving Las Vegas?

[yoloswegmaster]

Remember that time Mike Figgis confirmed a criterion edition of Leaving Las Vegas?

Except he never really gave an actual confirmation that they were releasing it. He just said that he was talking with them about releasing a special edition of LLV, which to me is different from providing a confirmation.

[swo17]

He said "I know they're working on a Criterion thing." It could just be for streaming. The question he was responding to mentioned streaming