UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading [Archive]

[Captain Paranoia]

Friends, thank you for responding to my unjustified post. I don't know why I thought there were no extras on the Arrow UHD. I guess I assumed that the extras are always left to the BD. But clearly I was wrong. I apologize to all affected.

This is probably not the place to ask, but does anyone have BDInfo for the Criterion release?

[tenia]

Disc Title: THE LAST EMPEROR UHD
Disc Size: 97,560,485,604 bytes
Protection: AACS2
Playlist: 00005.MPLS
Size: 95,544,432,000 bytes
Length: 2:43:07.277
Total Bitrate: 78.10 Mbps
Video: MPEG-H HEVC Video / 63070 kbps / 2160p / 23.976 fps / 16:9 / Main 10 @ Level 5.1 @ High / 10 bits / HDR10 / BT.2020 *
Video: MPEG-H HEVC Video / 9198 kbps / 1080p / 23.976 fps / 16:9 / Main 10 @ Level 5.1 @ High / 10 bits / Dolby Vision / BT.2020
Audio: English / DTS-HD Master Audio / 2.0 / 48 kHz / 2000 kbps / 24-bit (DTS Core: 2.0 / 48 kHz / 1509 kbps / 24-bit)
Audio: English / Dolby Digital Audio / 2.0 / 48 kHz / 192 kbps / DN -31dB
Subtitle: English / 24.479 kbps

[nicolas]

Repo Man UHD HD caps: https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Repo-Man ... creenshots
I've noticed minor chroma noise and some clipped highlights but I expect both to be improved or outright fixed (chroma noise) in DV.
The film's AR is again 1.78. Looking forward to Chris' review.

[Finch]

Curzon's Memories of Murder 4K nudges ahead of the Korean and French UHDs with a somewhat stronger encode (thanks to Visual Data Media who're credited in the booklet) and being the only English friendly release for the extras to date (maybe Criterion will announce for December or January). fkid's screenshots are here.

[nicolas]

fkid also got Sony’s Drive and analyzed it https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php? ... ount=117 ] and https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php? ... count=121]. Inferior video compared to SS’s FiM encode (probably irrelevant) and possibly worse audio.

[Finch]

nicolas posted a review of the MUBI 4K of Perfect Days over at BR.com. Based on that, I'll stick that in the superior import column.

[nicolas]

nicholas posted a review of the MUBI 4K of Perfect Days over at BR.com. Based on that, I'll stick that in the superior import column.

Thanks! I was just about to post it here as well until I finished comparing SC’s Point Break to get it all in one post. Are you sure you want to add it to your list or fus1on’s since this is a new title?

The SC German UHD (Plaion Webstore exclusive) of Point Break is the clear winner in the audio department with a stunning 5.1 mix (detailed infos by SwissHD across this page: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.ph ... 96&page=11) but only with a very good encode in DV (HDR10 a notch below but not poor). The UK icon has reference video but only the bad 5.1 from the Shout and the good 2.0. Unfortunately it’s a pick your poison situation. Here’s my brief review in full: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php ... tcount=222

[Finch]

I tend to only include contemporary titles if they get picked up by Criterion or another boutique label.

I can include the UK and German 4Ks of Point Break as better imports since the UK disc has good OG audio at least.

[nicolas]

I tend to only include contemporary titles if they get picked up by Criterion or another boutique label.

I can include the UK and German 4Ks of Point Break as better imports since the UK disc has good OG audio at least.

Sounds great! I’ll also add the Point Break SC to the non-English subtitle post as they only included German subs.

[nicolas]

Thieves Like Us (VS / Cinématographe) is a solid upgrade according to a poster on the other forum with a better grade than the old master. Encoding is by FiM. Unfortunately the new master is tied to an expensive LE at the moment.

[hearthesilence]

Thieves Like Us (VS / Cinématographe) is a solid upgrade according to a poster on the other forum with a better grade than the old master. Encoding is by FiM. Unfortunately the new master is tied to an expensive LE at the moment.

Excellent news - I was thinking of getting Radiance's edition but was reluctant to do so given the age of the master.

[nicolas]

- The Silence of the Lambs (Arrow) was already superior to the Kino since its announcement but according to first reports and pictures, the improvement is even more pronounced and the 2.0 mix is the OG track and sounds much better than the fold-down by KL. Can’t wait to get this.
- Sudden Death by KL isn’t even released and noticeable compression issues are already confirmed from early arrivals.

- For fus1on‘s list: The Bikeriders is a red category UHD in picture and sound.

[nicolas]

New Dolby Vision screenshot comparison between the Arrow and Criterion UHDs of The Last Emperor by fkid and, surprisingly, the Criterion is sometimes severely different and not in a good way. https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php? ... tcount=136. Note: The caps may appear improperly washed-out on displays that don’t support HDR.

Looking forward to other opinions but I think the Arrow is the one reference release with the Criterion belonging into the blue tier.

[Fus1on]

The Bikeriders (Universal)

(Added to Reference)

[Fus1on]

Very happy to hear that about Arrow's UHD of Silence of the Lambs. I'll be getting it at some point within the next week and might offer my thoughts on it. The only problem is that I don't have Kino's UHD, so I'll have to rely on screencaps as a reference point.

[Finch]

Seems like we have to add a caveat to the Arrow Silence of the Lambs 4K. People have noticed that the bass on the 2.0 track is at about the same lower level as the 5.1 track (lower compared to the OG 2.0) and that Criterion's 2.0 track sounds superior. Whoever was in charge of the 2.0 track provided to Arrow seems to have needlessly futzed with it. Arrow haven't addressed this just yet. Watch this space.

[Captain Paranoia]

Looking forward to other opinions but I think the Arrow is the one reference release with the Criterion belonging into the blue tier.

For those who have the Turbine set, how does it compare against the Arrow?

[nicolas]

Looking forward to other opinions but I think the Arrow is the one reference release with the Criterion belonging into the blue tier.

For those who have the Turbine set, how does it compare against the Arrow?

I’m fairly certain that it’s equal to the Arrow just as with Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas and Naked Lunch. These two are the other shared Arrow-Turbine restorations and what I’ve seen from caps they’re all but identical when it comes to encoding and grading. We would’ve probably heard bad feedback when the Turbine came out.

[therewillbeblus]

Seems like we have to add a caveat to the Arrow Silence of the Lambs 4K. People have noticed that the bass on the 2.0 track is at about the same lower level as the 5.1 track (lower compared to the OG 2.0) and that Criterion's 2.0 track sounds superior. Whoever was in charge of the 2.0 track provided to Arrow seems to have needlessly futzed with it. Arrow haven't addressed this just yet. Watch this space.

How bad is it supposed to be? And I’m a bit confused - does that mean the 5.1 track is no good either, or just the 2.0 track has (egregious? minor?) issues?

[nicolas]

Seems like we have to add a caveat to the Arrow Silence of the Lambs 4K. People have noticed that the bass on the 2.0 track is at about the same lower level as the 5.1 track (lower compared to the OG 2.0) and that Criterion's 2.0 track sounds superior. Whoever was in charge of the 2.0 track provided to Arrow seems to have needlessly futzed with it. Arrow haven't addressed this just yet. Watch this space.

How bad is it supposed to be? And I’m a bit confused - does that mean the 5.1 track is no good either, or just the 2.0 track has (egregious? minor?) issues?

There’s been news in the meantime. The Arrow 2.0 apparently is not as bad as it seems and in fact is more akin to the original LaserDisc mix than the Criterion 2.0. One BR.com user compared the mixes and found out that Criterion’s 2.0 is more compressed and mixed louder, which explains the stark differences. Arrow however made a tiny mistake when applying a filter to remove a CRT scanner noise from the mix not on the exact same level in the waveform. However this is apparently no cause of concern as it’s inaudible in motion and therefore not worthy of a replacement program. However, there’s still no proper consensus regarding the bass output and which level is actually correct - the more prominent LFE on the Criterion or the subdued bass on the Arrow and all the 5.1 mixes. The 5.1 mixes are still considered to be a disappointment and Arrow seemingly didn’t work on these further. (Kino’s 2.0 is a downmix of the 5.1).

I think this will all become clear as soon as more people receive their copies of the UHD and maybe Arrow chime in to clear this up.

[therewillbeblus]

So would you recommend putting on the 2.0 track over the 5.1?

[nicolas]

So would you recommend putting on the 2.0 track over the 5.1?

The audio experts on BR.com definitely prefer the 2.0. I must say I haven’t even watched the film on my proper setup yet, so this is all new territory for me as well.

[therewillbeblus]

Cool, thanks for the clarification, Nicolas!

[tenia]

Spectral comparisons for Silence of the Lambs here (waveforms and spectrograms) : https://slow.pics/c/retkTB9x

Michael Mackenzie's explanations on Facebook are that :

The 2.0 track is a brand new restoration from the original elements, created specially for this release. As the graphs at https://slow.pics/c/retkTB9x demonstrate, the new restoration has significantly greater dynamic range than its predecessors - particularly the Criterion 2.0 track, which is heavily compressed, resulting in the quieter elements being artificially made to sound more prominent in the mix. The only previous release that's really comparable to the Arrow 2.0 is the old Image Entertainment LaserDisc.

Basically, the quiet bits on the Criterion are louder, and in some people's minds, louder automatically = better (in much the same way that an image with the saturation and contrast dialled up to 11 appears superficially more vibrant and punchy than a more neutral image).

I understand that this is the sound a lot of people have grown accustomed to over the years, but the new Arrow 2.0 is the superior track, both in terms of its range and its fidelity to the original elements, and it's frustrating beyond belief to see people (most of whom haven't actually heard it yet and are simply amplifying the initial reactions of a handful of people who got their copies early) concluding that we've somehow botched this release when we absolutely haven't.

I appreciate and understand people's passion and desire for these films to be treated right. I also understand why people are naturally cautious - not least because of the problems that have affected previous releases of this film. But I wish people weren't so quick to jump to conclusions and to go off on one, repeating unsubstantiated rumours and speculation as gospel truth - not least because misinformation is far easier to spread than it is to clean up.

And, from a more personal angle, because it would have allowed me to avoid a sleepless night, lying awake second-guessing myself over and over as I tried to work out what could possibly have gone wrong and whether it was my fault.

[Finch]

Thanks for sharing that, tenia. I'd not added a qualifier yet to the OP and Michael's post makes clear beyond doubt that one isn't needed.