Criterion and Disney

[Michael Kerpan]

I'd definitely buy a Song of the South with a Whoopi Goldberg commentary.

[Zot!]

I'd definitely buy a Song of the South with a Whoopi Goldberg commentary.

I'm still waiting on my Tom & Jerry volume II BD, so I wouldn't hold your breath, and I'm pretty sure Disney is even far more "morally-compassed" than WB. Either way, it's all about the bottom line for these multi-conglomerates, and nobody wants to make waves when there is a theme park in Abu Dhabi on the line, and they just coughed up 16-mil to our commander-in-chief's funny book collection, so unless he comes out as a big Uncle Remus fan, this remains a hot potato.

[pistolwink]

I can absolutely see releasing Song of the South becoming a cause célèbre on the right. It's not much weirder than Trump insisting that they restore the name "Redskins" to a football team, which apparently is his priority of the week.

[Matt]

And I can see it becoming an equally galvanizing issue for everyone else. Unlike lesser-known films like Wonder Bar or Shall We Dance, Song of the South is widely known as "that racist Disney movie," even though few people under 50 have ever seen it. Disney would probably face boycotts no matter if they decide to release it or to publicly comment on why they continue to suppress it.

[beamish14]

I can absolutely see releasing Song of the South becoming a cause célèbre on the right. It's not much weirder than Trump insisting that they restore the name "Redskins" to a football team, which apparently is his priority of the week.

I can imagine Disney letting it quietly fall into the public domain

[Matt]

I can imagine Disney letting it quietly fall into the public domain

That wouldn't happen for another 17 years, though, regardless of what Disney does. And if they never supply original film elements to anyone, you won't get anything better than whatever bootlegs currently exist.

[domino harvey]

This movie is like Out 1, famous for its unavailability. Disney would be wise to let someone put it out because the blase response would remove it from public discourse (they won’t)

[soundchaser]

Let me add to the chorus of people who have seen the film and find it tedious. Domino is right — Disney should bury it not for its (genuinely) racist elements but because it’s more exciting in imagination than reality.

[colinr0380]

I was very amused a while back when the Cinemas Underbelly guy did a run through of his collection of the most extreme, notorious and reprehensible films of all time, and in amongst the Salos and August Undergrounds of course he had to have a couple of copies of Song of the South in there too! Amusingly that's the one he felt the need to have to make special disclaimers for! (Although that did show that it apparently had received both a DVD and a Blu-ray release somewhere in the world at some point)

[beamish14]

I was very amused a while back when the Cinemas Underbelly guy did a run through of his collection of the most extreme, notorious and reprehensible films of all time, and in amongst the Salos and August Undergrounds of course he had to have a couple of copies of Song of the South in there too! Amusingly that's the one he felt the need to have to make special disclaimers for! (Although that did show that it apparently had received both a DVD and a Blu-ray release somewhere in the world at some point)

It’s in the public domain in a few countries already. I imagine that there are Technicolor prints of it, as well as copies of its 1986 reissue that could serve as a basis for a fan release, but there just probably isn’t enough of a demand for people to care

I do think that Mary Blair’s design work is exceptional, and it highlights why she had such a strong hand in later Disney productions like Alice in Wonderland and Peter Pan (a film every bit as racist as Song of the South, but it always gets a pass. I saw it theatrically during its 1990 reissue)

[colinr0380]

And of course there are the crows in Dumbo.

I'm showing my age but my mum took me to see a screening of Peter Pan in the cinema in Cornwall as a kid (I think it must have been around 1985 or 1986 because I have a distinct memory of queuing outside the theatre and being quite captivated by that poster for The Goonies of the entire cast clinging to a stalagtite. I remember being intrigued about just how someone could have ended up in that striking state of affairs! Of course nothing like that actually occurs in the film itself, which was my first exposure to the spectacular misleading razzle-dazzle of the evocative movie poster!), which I think may have been my first cinema experience. Although I also remember my dad taking me to The Fox and the Hound as well on a separate trip, but am not certain whether that was before or after. Both were definitely in the 1980s though! Speaking of which, and to take it back to the subject of casual racism, that was the era where it seemed as if every film in British cinemas began with the Kia-Ora advert!

[hearthesilence]

Let me add to the chorus of people who have seen the film and find it tedious. Domino is right — Disney should bury it not for its (genuinely) racist elements but because it’s more exciting in imagination than reality.

At minimum, it did inspire one of the best episodes of SNL’s TV Funhouse.

[beamish14]

And of course there are the crows in Dumbo.

I'm showing my age but my mum took me to see a screening of Peter Pan in the cinema in Cornwall as a kid (I think it must have been around 1985 or 1986 because I have a distinct memory of queuing outside the theatre and being quite captivated by that poster for The Goonies of the entire cast clinging to a stalagtite. I remember being intrigued about just how someone could have ended up in that striking state of affairs! Of course nothing like that actually occurs in the film itself, which was my first exposure to the spectacular misleading razzle-dazzle of the evocative movie poster!), which I think may have been my first cinema experience. Although I also remember my dad taking me to The Fox and the Hound as well on a separate trip, but am not certain whether that was before or after. Both were definitely in the 1980s though! Speaking of which, and to take it back to the subject of casual racism, that was the era where it seemed as if every film in British cinemas began with the Kia-Ora advert!

The Siamese cats in Lady and the Tramp, etc. It’s so much bigger than Song of the South

[FlickeringWindow]

If there was one Walt-era Disney animated film worthy of Criterion, it's Fantasia. Between all the endless edits of the film and sound mixes, not to mention the way it intersects music and animation. Lots there for a definitive edition. Song of the South would sell better, but I think it'll ultimately be a disappointment since it's kind of a mediocre film when it's not animated.

Though, I'd also consider a lot of the Walt-era live-action films and some later ones to be Criterion-worthy like 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea, Mary Poppins, and Tron. Of course, it seems like the only way a Disney property gets licensed at all is if the director actively pushes for it (like Anderson, Del Toro, Haigh, and Stanton). It's fun to imagine all the great releases that could happen through even other labels like Arrow (The Black Hole or Return to Oz), Indicator (all those British coproductions), and maybe even Eureka (Oswald or Alice silents collections?)

[hearthesilence]

Someone mentioned Tom and Jerry upthread - I haven’t watched them in years but I remember being shocked by the massive amount of revisionism done on them on cable broadcasts, not just re-editing but also overdubbing a completely new vocal for Tom’s owner. I never saw if they did anything similar with the zoot suit episode which would be a shame - that was my introduction to Louis Jordan and the whole episode blew my mind.

[domino harvey]

It’s a sad fact that the racist songs in Lady in the Tramp and Peter Pan are by far the best musical numbers in their films— what do you even do other than contextualize it and just move on, it’s Chinatown etc

[Matt]

Let me add to the chorus of people who have seen the film and find it tedious. Domino is right — Disney should bury it not for its (genuinely) racist elements but because it’s more exciting in imagination than reality.

At minimum, it did inspire one of the best episodes of SNL’s TV Funhouse.

And one of Tracy Morgan's funnier SNL bits.

[Lowry_Sam]

This movie is like Out 1, famous for its unavailability. Disney would be wise to let someone put it out because the blase response would remove it from public discourse (they won’t)

I didn't realize this was so rare until I just tried searching for it after watching some Rivette recently. I remember when that box first came out on blu-ray and was a pricey import, but then a reasonable Out 1 US box came out which didn't sell well and eventually could be had for about $20, but I didn't jump on it and now it's going for $500 on ebay. Meanwhile the Fantasia/2000 4 disc blu-ray/dvd set which I did buy at the time (easily over $20) can now be had for under $10 on ebay.

[pistolwink]

The box isn't easy to come by, but I think he's referring to the film itself, which was barely screened (because of its length, mostly) and largely a rumor for decades. A number of critics (in the English-speaking world, Jonathan Rosenbaum is the most notable) made extraordinary claims for the film which combined with its unavailability to give it a reputation that — once people could actually see it — it didn't live up to.

[Lowry_Sam]

I remember when the blu-ray box was released, people were rather surprised that the box received a Region A release after the Region B release, as it was far from selling out and the price had to be significantly reduced to move copies. I remember thinking, do I want to buy something I'm not likely to watch again even at a low price when people were saying that it would not likely get released again, but still passed on it. So its scarcity that in and of itself creates demand.

[Orlac]

The box isn't easy to come by, but I think he's referring to the film itself, which was barely screened (because of its length, mostly) and largely a rumor for decades. A number of critics (in the English-speaking world, Jonathan Rosenbaum is the most notable) made extraordinary claims for the film which combined with its unavailability to give it a reputation that — once people could actually see it — it didn't live up to.

I have no regrets selling on Out 1 - it just wasn't for me, and, along with Riddles of the Sphinx ( a STRICTLY LIMITED blu-ray that is still in print 12 years later) taught me that you don't have to get everything because it's a limited edition.

[FrauBlucher]

Correct me if I’m wrong. Wall-E was released in late 2022. The only other Disney licensed released since then was Del Toro’s Nightmare Alley. And nothing else. So, a little over a three year sample is significant as to what we can expect from Disney and that even Criterion will have a hard time licensing titles from them, unless the director makes a deal or a request, as with the 2 mentioned. And as we know Criterion sits on titles, but surely they wouldn’t sit on Disney titles post merger.

So basically RIP 20th Century Fox catalogue

[ryannichols7]

All of Us Strangers
Isle of Dogs
The Shape of Water

[FrauBlucher]

I missed those but all 3 directors most likely had deals to end up with the Criterion releases

[DRW.mov]

French Dispatch is also from the Mouse. The last title released from the Disney/Fox vault without a living director involved was The Girl Can't Help It in 2022. Miller's Crossing was around the same time but, ya know, Coens.