663 Shoah

[djproject]

And now for something completely different:

I've been gradually upgrading my Criterion titles to the Blu-ray editions now that I finally have a Blu-ray player. I've already obtained this on DVD (last year around this time and yes, it was exploiting the B&N sale). I have read about the compression issues for the Blu-ray. Is it still worth the upgrade if I already have it on DVD?

[tenia]

Yes it is.
Shoah has a very grainy look due to its 16mm material. Even though compression could have been better (IMO and others' opinion), the upgrade is notable.

[djproject]

Both Filip Müller and Rudolf Vrba testified at the Frankfurt Auschwitz trials.

(I recognized them whilst watching the 1993 German-made informative film/documentary, Auschwitz vor Gericht or Verdict on Auschwitz)

[hearthesilence]

I've been reading that one of the secretly filmed Nazis actually discovered he was being filmed and assaulted Lanzmann on the spot - which one was it?

[Numero Trois]

This gives some info on that:

Heinz Schubert was Otto Ohlendorf's adjutant in Einsatzgruppe D. He was sentenced to death in the Einsatzgruppen trial at Nuremberg for his role in the massacre of Jews in the Crimean town of Simferopol. His sentence was commuted to ten years in prison. Schubert never admits to much criminal or moral guilt. The interview ends when Schubert discovers that Lanzmann has been filming it. Several men, among them Schubert's son, attack Lanzmann and his interpreter, Corinna Coulmas. The Schuberts pressed charges against Lanzmann and he was forced to give up filming clandestinely. Lanzmann is eventually cleared after writing an impassioned letter to the prosecutor and his camera (called a Paluche) is returned to him. The filming and the discovery is recounted in Lanzmann's memoir The Patagonian Hare (see pgs. 458 - 465 in the English translation that appeared in March 2012).

Here's the transcript. I read elsewhere that Lanzmann spent a month in the hospital for that incident. The Claude Lanzmann: Spectres of the Shoah documentary short supposedly includes several Shoah outtakes including that violent encounter.

[hearthesilence]

Thanks for the links. I didn't realize how difficult it was to make this film until I started going through the supplements - it's pretty astonishing what he had to do and put up with to get the film we have today.

[Costa]

I have a question about this now that I saw some recent posts in the other forum.

Criterion released the unaltered Ritrovata restoration and Eureka got the SAME restoration and corrected the color?
OR they released another restoration?

[tenia]

It's the same restoration. David wrote at the time that what is on the MoC disc reproduces exactly the color of the digital restored file he was sent to be compressed.

the color and gamma of the MoC version are exactly as per the supplied master.

So to date, no one knows why the Criterion has this green tint (matching the previous restoration / DVD releases) but it looks like it's their internal doing.

[Costa]

It's the same restoration. David wrote at the time that what is on the MoC disc reproduces exactly the color of the digital restored file he was sent to be compressed.

the color and gamma of the MoC version are exactly as per the supplied master.

So to date, no one knows why the Criterion has this green tint (matching the previous restoration / DVD releases) but it looks like it's their internal doing.

Oh, I would have never guessed that!
Thanks!

Now I can't help but wonder if Criterion was sent another master for Fantastic Planet, and the resulting color was their own doing! :-k
Although, seeing the other Eclair restorations released by other labels, they are in the same color area, so maybe not..
(I know, I'm stuck in this release.. But i was so impressed by the Criterion detail and it was such a pity for me that it ended up like this. i don't think I have been disappointed that much for another bluray, except for the degrained Disney Blurays)

[Drucker]

It's the same restoration. David wrote at the time that what is on the MoC disc reproduces exactly the color of the digital restored file he was sent to be compressed.

the color and gamma of the MoC version are exactly as per the supplied master.

So to date, no one knows why the Criterion has this green tint (matching the previous restoration / DVD releases) but it looks like it's their internal doing.

I was under the impression that an improperly-encoded disc could produce weird color anomalies? I thought the answer was that simple. (see also: slightly brighter versions of films when Kino/Olive put them out).

[tenia]

The gamma could be off, yes, but I don't think it would turn a "natural" color-grading into one with a slight overall green bias.

[andyli]

My favorite teal revisionism has to be Gaumont's transfer of Atlantic City. All the others I can live with, but this one, man, there is virtually no other color present.

[MichaelB]

Thief, while clearly not remotely resembling what came out in 1981 (there is no way that not one single critic from the time would have failed to mention the wildly unusual colour scheme), works surprisingly well otherwise - although I daresay the direct input of the film's director helped.

[tenia]

While I totally gets the criticism about Thief's 4K resto color-timing, it indeed works very well (though blacks are a bit too deep to me).

[hearthesilence]

Claude Lanzmann retrospective coming to Quad Cinema, spotlighting his latest and final work. Program will include a 35mm screening of Shoah, which happens once in a blue moon in NYC but definitely very rare elsewhere.

[Matt]

Both DVD and Blu-ray sets currently unavailable on Criterion's site or Amazon. Not even listed on Barnes & Noble's site.

[dwk]

Since it isn't listed as OOP, I imagine that the packaging is being reformatted to a 3-disc scanavo for the Blu-ray and the DVD will probably go OOP.

[The Fanciful Norwegian]

It doesn't seem to be available on any digital storefronts or streamers anymore except maybe Philo (which I can't confirm). I wonder if IFC's rights expired.

[hearthesilence]

FWIW, MoC's edition is much better, so don't spend too much on Criterion's unless you're region-locked.

EDIT: Eureka's website says it's discontinued, but Amazon's marketplace still has it in stock through OxfordshireEngland.

[domino harvey]

I wouldn’t order direct from the UK right now…

[dwk]

It seems that in 2024, mk2 got the worldwide rights to Shoah. So, yes IFC lost the rights.

[FrauBlucher]

Maybe a UHD edition is being worked on

[The Fanciful Norwegian]

It seems that in 2024, mk2 got the worldwide rights to Shoah. So, yes IFC lost the rights.

That wouldn't have voided whatever deal IFC had with the previous rightsholder. If IFC's U.S. distribution rights have expired, it's because they were due to expire at this point in the first place and they either didn't try to renew them or mk2 chose another bid over theirs. If the film has in fact been snatched up by a different U.S. distributor, my money would be on Cohen.

Maybe a UHD edition is being worked on

The current restoration was from a 4K scan but finished at 2K. I haven't seen anything suggesting a new restoration is on the way, but I suppose everyone could still be keeping it under their hat.

[Matt]

MK2 presented the film earlier this year at the Berlin Film Festival. It's still the same 2012 2K restoration from a 4K scan, and MK2's press notes still credit IFC Films and Criterion as co-sponsors of the restoration.

MK2 also presented at Berlin a documentary by Guillaume Ribot, All I Had Was Nothingness, that uses only Lanzmann's own words and unused excerpts from the 220 hours of footage Lanzmann shot for Shoah.

A new French edition on Blu-ray comes out from Carlotta in November.

[MichaelB]

Maybe a UHD edition is being worked on

Given the 16mm source, I can't see much point - this isn't the kind of film that's going to benefit from HDR, so you'll end up charging a lot more money (given that a minimum of two UHD discs will be required) for something that most likely will look indistinguishable from the Eureka disc.