Raoul Walsh

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swo17
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Re: Raoul Walsh

#51 Post by swo17 »

mizo wrote: Fri Aug 29, 2025 12:08 am The names Ray Enright, George Fitzmaurice, Sidney Franklin, Edward Griffith, Sidney Lanfield, Elliott Nugent, Alfred Santell, and Richard Thorpe similarly make me go "Who?"

Any secret auteurs here? Or even any idea what singular masterworks caught Melville's attention?
You may be familiar with some of their work--

Enright: Dames
Fitzmaurice: Son of the Sheik
Franklin: The Good Earth
Griffith: Holiday (1930)
Lanfield: The Hound of the Baskervilles
Nugent: The Crystal Ball
Thorpe: Cry Havoc, Ivanhoe, Athena
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Matt
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Re: Raoul Walsh

#52 Post by Matt »

mizo wrote: Fri Aug 29, 2025 12:08 am (and I hope it's pronounced "Bucket")
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Lowry_Sam
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Re: Raoul Walsh

#53 Post by Lowry_Sam »

domino harvey wrote: Thu Aug 28, 2025 9:20 pm Jean-Pierre Melville on why he excluded Walsh from his 63-name long list of Pre-War American Directors
Now, as it happens, I didn’t like any of Walsh’s pre-war
films, because they were all marginal and they all had something
wrong.
Over the years I've come to learn to groan whenever I see "Directed by Raoul Walsh" at the beginning of a film because the best I can hope for is a mediocre film. So while I largely agree with Melville's assessment of his skill as a director, I would have to disagree with this statement. Of all his films I've seen so far, there were 3x I was completely surprised by something that I felt rose to the level of the best of the auteurs in the biz. This probably shouldn't be a surprise for someone with so many director credits (140 according to imdb). One of those times was on a project where he was called in to complete the work of another director (John Huston), In This Our Life. But the other two times were films that actually precede WWII: Sadie Thompson & The Roaring Twenties. This is also pretty consistent with most of my assesments of directors' films, as most of the films I love tend to come from the first half of the director's career.
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diamonds
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Re: Raoul Walsh

#54 Post by diamonds »

mizo wrote: Fri Aug 29, 2025 12:08 am The names Ray Enright, George Fitzmaurice, Sidney Franklin, Edward Griffith, Sidney Lanfield, Elliott Nugent, Alfred Santell, and Richard Thorpe similarly make me go "Who?"

Any secret auteurs here? Or even any idea what singular masterworks caught Melville's attention?
Dave Kehr has long championed Alfred Santell and penned a short auteur study on him for Film Comment that's worth seeking out. I've only managed to see That Brennan Girl, but I'm with Kehr in finding it to be an extraordinary film, a profoundly moving vision of warmth and grace.
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CSM126
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Re: Raoul Walsh

#55 Post by CSM126 »

Matt wrote: Fri Aug 29, 2025 12:56 am
mizo wrote: Fri Aug 29, 2025 12:08 am (and I hope it's pronounced "Bucket")
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I’m not saying this forum should have a like button, but if it did I’d smash it so hard.
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mizo
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Re: Raoul Walsh

#56 Post by mizo »

swo17 wrote: Fri Aug 29, 2025 12:27 amYou may be familiar with some of their work--

Enright: Dames
Fitzmaurice: Son of the Sheik
Franklin: The Good Earth
Griffith: Holiday (1930)
Lanfield: The Hound of the Baskervilles
Nugent: The Crystal Ball
Thorpe: Cry Havoc, Ivanhoe, Athena
Thanks for the breakdown! The Crystal Ball and the Thorpes in particular look to be up my alley.

Dames, at least, I should've known, though can you blame a guy for forgetting whose name is on any of the Busby Berkeley musicals? I was surprised I was able to clock Lloyd Bacon as the director of 42nd Street (and, apparently, Footlight Parade). Still wondering what Fitzmaurice title appealed to Melville so much, since he claims his list "relates only to the sound era."
diamonds wrote: Fri Aug 29, 2025 1:47 am Dave Kehr has long championed Alfred Santell and penned a short auteur study on him for Film Comment that's worth seeking out. I've only managed to see That Brennan Girl, but I'm with Kehr in finding it to be an extraordinary film, a profoundly moving vision of warmth and grace.
Thanks for the recommendation!
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knives
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Re: Raoul Walsh

#57 Post by knives »

I like some of Alfred Santell’s films and there’s a lot of him which makes sense for Melville to enjoy. Unfortunately most of them aren’t so good.

Ray Enright might actually be the worst director I’ve ever seen.

Edit: I had also been going over the films of Franklin and his brother earlier in the year and they’re both excellent and worth exploring.
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Matt
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Re: Raoul Walsh

#58 Post by Matt »

mizo wrote: Fri Aug 29, 2025 2:16 am Still wondering what Fitzmaurice title appealed to Melville so much, since he claims his list "relates only to the sound era."
Fitzmaurice seems to have done a number of robbery/heist movies—Raffles, Arsène Lupin Returns, The Unholy Garden, Adventure in Diamonds—and spy movies—Mata Hari, The Emperor's Candlesticks—so it may not be more than that.

As for Walsh, I could absolutely see Melville saying he didn't like Walsh just because some guy he disliked did like Walsh. I think Melville was a mercurial, often petty person.
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tolbs1010
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Re: Raoul Walsh

#59 Post by tolbs1010 »

Matt wrote: Fri Aug 29, 2025 4:26 am As for Walsh, I could absolutely see Melville saying he didn't like Walsh just because some guy he disliked did like Walsh. I think Melville was a mercurial, often petty person.
I was going to say something similar. His own quote about young critics being 'deceived' (lol) kind of gives it away. Those Frenchies had regular pissing contests over their opinions on American films and read more into them than was actually there in many cases. Melville lists damn near every other working Director of the era just to shit on Walsh! I always like it when filmmakers give hot takes about other filmmakers. I wish more modern filmmakers would do that. Personally, I think most of Melville's films are overrated in their stilted, bloodless 'perfection', but I'm not a filmmaker and that's for a different thread.

There is no question that Walsh's best work was in the 1940's, but I'd take Sadie Thompson, The Bowery, Me And My Gal, The Big Trail, and The Roaring Twenties (though I think it's a bit overrated) over anything by at least half of the Directors he names in that list. I remember liking The Yellow Ticket as well, but it's been a long time since I saw it.

Definitely will be checking out some of Santell's films as a result of reading this conversation. That Brennan Girl is available free on Fawesome. Also very curious to see his version of The Sea Wolf (if I can find it) to compare with the Curtiz.
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mizo
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Re: Raoul Walsh

#60 Post by mizo »

Matt wrote: Fri Aug 29, 2025 4:26 am Fitzmaurice seems to have done a number of robbery/heist movies—Raffles, Arsène Lupin Returns, The Unholy Garden, Adventure in Diamonds—and spy movies—Mata Hari, The Emperor's Candlesticks—so it may not be more than that.
That's an excellent point. I hadn't considered Melville's own genre predilections.
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knives
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Re: Raoul Walsh

#61 Post by knives »

tolbs1010 wrote: Fri Aug 29, 2025 5:52 am Definitely will be checking out some of Santell's films as a result of reading this conversation. That Brennan Girl is available free on Fawesome. Also very curious to see his version of The Sea Wolf (if I can find it) to compare with the Curtiz.
The Hairy Ape is probably his biggest title and Winterset is the best I’ve seen by a fair margin.
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Mr Sausage
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Re: Raoul Walsh

#62 Post by Mr Sausage »

tolbs1010 wrote:That Brennan Girl is available free on Fawesome.
Didn't know about this streaming site, but they have Tsui Hark's hard-to-find debut, The Butterfly Murders!
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domino harvey
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Re: Raoul Walsh

#63 Post by domino harvey »

For those trying to decipher Melville’s intentions and impetuses, this may or may not be helpful (from Melville on Melville)
I think I am the last living witness in France who can testify on behalf of that pre-war American cinema. One day I shall no longer be around, and there will be no one left in France with a memory like mine who can really assess these films as they deserve. Because if you see them now at the Cinematheque, you can’t place them in the context of the year in which they were made. The film which was released in April 1934 - between March 1934 and May 1934 - isn’t at all the same thing when you see it now some afternoon or evening at the Cinematheque. So: are my films - and I’m not putting on a false modesty act here - worth talking about in the same terms as some of these other films I’m always talking about? I don’t know the answer, and nobody will until some fifty years from now when the Henri Langlois Pantheon has been replaced by a definitive Pantheon . . . because I don’t
accept the Langlois Pantheon, which is subjective, distorted,
and to be approached with caution. What I do accept, of
course, is Langlois’ mission, his life-work, and the Cinematheque,
that marvellous invention he shares with Franju. But the films Langlois loves - there I can’t agree with him.
And of course there’s also this
My uncle was a big Paris antique-dealer, at a time when that was a real profession. I was a very small boy when he made me understand one day the difference between things that are beautiful and things that are less so. I was asking him why the enormous difference in price between two objects in his shop, and he took two apparently identical Louis XIV armchairs and said: ‘You see, here are two more or less similar armchairs. Yet one is worth more than the other. Look at them carefully so you make no mistake, then tell me which is the more beautiful and therefore the more expensive.’ I looked at them carefully, I thought hard, and I made no mistake. Pleased, my uncle then added, ‘From now on, throughout your life, you will always know the difference between what is beautiful and what is not.’ I have never forgotten that lesson. So I believe I have very sound taste. For instance, at this moment we are watching Written on the Wind on television. It’s a pleasant film, very well made, but it’s not a great film although Douglas Sirk did make one remarkable film, A Time to Love and a Time to Die. The actress in it, on the other hand - Dorothy Malone - is a very fine piece of Louis XIV furniture. I think we are agreed about that, but if by any chance you were to disagree with me, well, it is I who would be right.
As you can tell, this book rules
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domino harvey
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Re: Raoul Walsh

#64 Post by domino harvey »

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domino harvey
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Re: Raoul Walsh

#65 Post by domino harvey »

therewillbeblus wrote: Mon Aug 11, 2025 7:43 pm I have very little to say about Fighter Squadron, one of the dullest films about aviation out there. It takes a very long time to build to some nice moments of camaraderie, and there's a couple serviceable air fight scenes, but the lasting impression is a mismanaged, uneven film and a waste of talent.
I moved this one up in the queue after seeing it chart for the MacMahonists but it’s actually a great reinforcement of Melville’s take. I tried to find some, any justification in the Walsh issue of Presence du cinema but as I suspected, there really isn’t a substantive one because this can’t be defended— this is juvenile material filmed sloppily and indefensible on any level it operates on. One true believer wrote in Presence that they liked Air Force until they saw Fighter Squadron… what do you even say to that? (It’s also doubly amusing since this film is modeled on another Hawks film, the Dawn Patrol)
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tolbs1010
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Re: Raoul Walsh

#66 Post by tolbs1010 »

domino harvey wrote: Thu Sep 25, 2025 11:20 pm Here are the fifteen Walsh films named by at least one of the MacMahonists in their ballot for the Six Best Walsh Films in Presence du cinema - individual lists were alphabetical, so ranking is by number of lists
The one that makes me chuckle (most) on this list is Sea Devils. Not sure how they got any auteurist vibes from this twaddle. The best that can be said about it is that it's shot on location in some pretty places. Walsh, Hudson, and De Carlo find no fun in the determinedly silly material.

It's like they had only seen a small fraction of the man's work (which would be understandable), mostly from his last 10 or 12 years. Did these guys never see High Sierra? Or Manpower? The Strawberry Blonde?
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domino harvey
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Re: Raoul Walsh

#67 Post by domino harvey »

tolbs1010 wrote: Wed Oct 01, 2025 4:22 am It's like they had only seen a small fraction of the man's work (which would be understandable), mostly from his last 10 or 12 years. Did these guys never see High Sierra? Or Manpower? The Strawberry Blonde?
I skimmed the Presence du cinema issue on Walsh with the same question an few days ago and they do mention other Walsh films than those listed, though titles escape me at the moment. Fouchet does note that despite their fervor there were a lot of Walsh titles the MacMahonists had not seen. Gentleman Jim was one of the first films they theatrically redistributed in France, so they obviously feel a sense of ownership over it which explains its top ranking, btw
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domino harvey
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Re: Raoul Walsh

#68 Post by domino harvey »

zedz wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:41 am DISTANT DRUMS

Very disappointing Raoul Walsh film, which doesn’t even have his normally fine staging of action scenes to recommend it. It’s a standard western in a non-standard setting (the Florida everglades), but it doesn’t work for several reasons:
- Gary Cooper is the lead, and he’s fine, but the film includes a focal character who’s not only largely irrelevant (I’m guessing he was figured in mainly to allow Cooper’s character to have a star entrance), but embodied by an actor who’s stiff as a board. Once Cooper enters, this second banana just hangs around with nothing to do, stinking the place up.
- The plot, which soon boils down to a chase through the swamp, is weirdly dull. Rather than ratcheting up tension by showing us a dogged pursuit, the chase is staged as a series of close shaves from which the soldiers narrowly escape, until, surprise!, the Indians suddenly catch up with them again and they have another narrow escape.
I think I somehow liked this even less than you! I am speechless at anyone who knows anything about movies thinking this is the best of its kind. What’s so evident here is that absolutely everyone involved in making this knows it sucks and so not a single person in front of or behind the camera tries to improve this material in any way. The way most of these scenes unfold is insulting as a viewer— it’s like watching Von Trier’s automatic cameras direct as action just moves at random across the screen. It’s shit like this that makes it so hard to convince some people that older films were the works of art they are. While reading Fouchet I gave myself over to the MacMahonists fervor about Walsh but it only took watching the films they slavered over to be jolted back to common sense. Imagine thinking Hitchcock sucks but this rules, what the actual fuck bros
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Never Cursed
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Re: Raoul Walsh

#69 Post by Never Cursed »

domino harvey wrote: Wed Oct 08, 2025 11:19 pm
zedz wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:41 am DISTANT DRUMS

Very disappointing Raoul Walsh film, which doesn’t even have his normally fine staging of action scenes to recommend it. It’s a standard western in a non-standard setting (the Florida everglades), but it doesn’t work for several reasons:
- Gary Cooper is the lead, and he’s fine, but the film includes a focal character who’s not only largely irrelevant (I’m guessing he was figured in mainly to allow Cooper’s character to have a star entrance), but embodied by an actor who’s stiff as a board. Once Cooper enters, this second banana just hangs around with nothing to do, stinking the place up.
- The plot, which soon boils down to a chase through the swamp, is weirdly dull. Rather than ratcheting up tension by showing us a dogged pursuit, the chase is staged as a series of close shaves from which the soldiers narrowly escape, until, surprise!, the Indians suddenly catch up with them again and they have another narrow escape.
I think I somehow liked this even less than you! I am speechless at anyone who knows anything about movies thinking this is the best of its kind. What’s so evident here is that absolutely everyone involved in making this knows it sucks and so not a single person in front of or behind the camera tries to improve this material in any way. The way most of these scenes unfold is insulting as a viewer— it’s like watching Von Trier’s automatic cameras direct as action just moves at random across the screen. It’s shit like this that makes it so hard to convince some people that older films were the works of art they are. While reading Fouchet I gave myself over to the MacMahonists fervor about Walsh but it only took watching the films they slavered over to be jolted back to common sense. Imagine thinking Hitchcock sucks but this rules, what the actual fuck bros
While I am sure this movie is awful, everyone else reading should remember that the film has exactly one noteworthy, enduring aspect
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domino harvey
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Re: Raoul Walsh

#70 Post by domino harvey »

Technically you hear that scream earlier in the film when they attack the fort, if you’re looking for the first first

I will note that the Olive Blu-ray looks much nicer than that clip, at least!
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Matt
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Re: Raoul Walsh

#71 Post by Matt »

domino harvey wrote: Thu Oct 09, 2025 12:21 am Technically you hear that scream earlier in the film when they attack the fort, if you’re looking for the first first
So even within the first film it appears it's re-used? Amazing.
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Re: Raoul Walsh

#72 Post by pistolwink »

It's good to know that the Wilhelm scream is specifically a "suddenly being dragged underwater by an alligator" scream.
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Never Cursed
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Re: Raoul Walsh

#73 Post by Never Cursed »

pistolwink wrote: Thu Oct 09, 2025 2:24 am It's good to know that the Wilhelm scream is specifically a "suddenly being dragged underwater by an alligator" scream.
That is in fact the direction being given to the actor!

Free idea for anyone reading this (who has a film contract with Amazon/MGM): begin a movie with Leo the Lion with the roars synched to the scream and then the takes afterwards.
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domino harvey
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Re: Raoul Walsh

#74 Post by domino harvey »

The calm, offhand tone of the vocal director going “Man getting bit by an alligator” replicates perfectly the excitement of this film
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Re: Raoul Walsh

#75 Post by pistolwink »

!!
Amazing piece of audio archeology!! I imagine this was part of a larger reel entitled "Man getting bit by various animals."

...This seems like an opportune moment to share my favorite clip from the Popeye cartoons.
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