Eclipse Series 13: Kenji Mizoguchi's Fallen Women

[HerrSchreck]

It's just another of the many fabulous aspects of this incredibly powerful, original film, which screams so loudly by keeping its voice down. I can't imagine the film without that sublime score.

[NilbogSavant]

With Eureka's Christmas sale and the upcoming B&N 50% off Criterion sale, I've decided to go ahead and purchase all of Mizoguchi's available films (I've seen and enjoyed Ugetsu, Sansho, and Oharu) on DVD. What would be the best way to do this with the least amount of repeat titles?

[swo17]

You missed the B&N sale by about two weeks, and you've only got another week left on the Eureka sale, so grab all you can from that.

[NilbogSavant]

You missed the B&N sale by about two weeks, and you've only got another week left on the Eureka sale, so grab all you can from that.

I heard there was another one coming up. Is that not true? Well, either way, I'm sure it'll happen again as they've already had two sales in less than 6 months.

[AisleSeat]

In Donald Richie's A Hundred Years of Japanese Film, he lists two lengths for Osaka Elegy: an original version of 89 minutes, and the U.S. version, 71 minutes. Is there any factual basis for this assertion?

Also, in his short guide to Japanese movies on VHS and DVD at the back of the book, Richie summarizes Osaka Elegy, in part, as: "... To keep her job as a telephone operator a woman becomes her employer's mistress. When he tires of her, she has no recourse but prostitution."

Hmm. She quit her job, didn't she? Also, didn't the executive's wife put an end to the affair, not the executive himself? Nitpicking, to be sure, but it does make one wonder ...

[escobar741]

Does anyone have the MK2 box set 'Coffret Kenji Mizoguchi', which includes Osaka Elegy (L'Elégie de Naniwa)? It would be nice to find out if it's the longer (90 mins?) version. I found out that Sisters of the Gion is available in a longer version from tfi, though only with French subs.

[bottled spider]

Hmm. She quit her job, didn't she? Also, didn't the executive's wife put an end to the affair, not the executive himself? Nitpicking, to be sure, but it does make one wonder

Richie's book on Kurosawa contains several minor errors like that -- a line of dialog attributed to the wrong character, or a slight inaccuracy in a plot synopsis. The errors are surprising, but in my opinion do not indicate sloppiness or imply a lack of critical acumen. I think there's been a discussion of errors in Richie's books elsewhere on the board.

[zedz]

Detail errors like these are par for the course for older film books. Pre-DVD, access to the vast majority of old films was incredibly haphazard, and authors would often have been relying on their memory of a single screening many years, or even decades, before, on the fallible accounts of other critics or filmmakers, or on a soundless viewing on a Steenbeck, if they were lucky enough to track down an actual print. In addition, the film may not have been subtitled, or have been subtitled partially and incorrectly. Of course, this is still an issue with less mainstream areas of cinema.

These various compromises were often aggravated by the necessity of including detailed plot synopses in any analysis, since the chance of the reader ever seeing the film under discussion was even more remote. It's a good thing to be aware of, as sometimes the false details prompt actual serious misreadings. (The only critical account of Amir Naderi's Water, Wind, Dust I could find before I saw the film, for instance, described a key scene that played out onscreen in the completely opposite way - unless there are two radically different versions of that film in circulation.)

[knives]

I found Sisters of the Gion to be better than the two later films I've seen, but there are still a number of elements about him that I just can't overcome. The way he ended the film was so patronizing that it overcomes my general dislike for a number of other elements. While much more ambiguous in possibly a bad manner the 'bad' sister's proselytizing was both out of character and completely condescending to Mizoguchi's audience. Did he really think his audience would forget the contents of an hour film as they were watching it? In general this type of thing is my biggest peeve with his films I've seen. He has no faith that his audience will make the right choice in a moral situation.
I was also chewing my lip with the way he characterized the sisters and their situation. Part of it is that it hedges so close to a couple of Naruse's that I just feel tackle this character type and situation better. In something of a counter-statement to my previous paragraph I think the real problem here is that for much of the film Mizoguchi plays things in such a way as to force a dichotomy between the sisters rather than the extension he seems to be aiming with in the ending. He paints the 'bad' sister as a bad person, not one in an unfortunate situation. Again I can't help but think others have (or rather will) tackle this better. The lead in The Insect Woman is just as power hungry and self-centered yet it is a known factor that Imamura cares for this character and wants us to sympathize to some degree with her. With this picture though it came as something as a shock that Mizoguchi actually cared for this character as a hero too. I honestly felt that he wanted us to treat her with contempt while romanticizing the 'good' sister. Unfortunately he manages to just romanticize the both of them. Admittedly this is better than that first alternative (again this is something I'm seeing as a pattern for Mizoguchi), but considering the way so many even in this thread speak of the man I expect something better than the Japanese Spielberg.

[Yojimbo]

Does anyone have the MK2 box set 'Coffret Kenji Mizoguchi', which includes Osaka Elegy (L'Elégie de Naniwa)? It would be nice to find out if it's the longer (90 mins?) version. I found out that Sisters of the Gion is available in a longer version from tfi, though only with French subs.

I have that set; I wasn't even aware that there were different versions, but I'll check it out and see.
I've already watched the Eclipse version.

[Michael Kerpan]

I don't _think_ there are two different versions of Osaka Elegy in existence.

[dad1153]

Finally got around to opening this Eclipse Set I've owned for over a year (yes, my kevyip pile is monstrous!). Watched "Sisters of the Gion" and "Osaka Elegy" back-to-back. Though completely different movies I can't separate them since they both feature mostly the same cast (with Isuzu Yamada as the lead in both) and same basic theme that echoed through the director's work: women in Japan had to put up with an unfair double-standard that put them at an unfair disadvantage with their fathers/brothers/co-workers/etc in just making a decent living. In Mizoguchi's movie world a telephone operator is no different than a geisha in the description of 'women,' and in both movies the final outcome sets back the lead women considerably but they're left with the inner-strength and will to carry on because they have nothing else left. "Osaka Elegy" is the slightly more fun of the two movies because Ayako is a cute little firecracker that only sleeps with her boss (who is played for laughs as an incompetent buffoon) to get her family out of financial trouble. The lack of appreciation and social outcast status bestowed upon Ayako by her father and brother (even little sister!) that should at least appreciate her sacrifices gives the movie's ending (especially that memorable walking shot across a bridge) poignancy that doesn't feel like a cop-out or cheap melodrama. "Sisters of the Gion" is a lot more simplistic and depressing (very little chance of happiness for any character that doesn't have a penis) but showcases Yamada-san's range as she plays the complete opposite of her role in "Osaka Elegy." Yôko Umemura plays the more sympathetic sister that still has optimism (and the self-appointed duty to help her bankrupt lover) until gradually, by the movie's end, these two are left only with each other to face a rough life ahead. Not as polished or nuanced as "Ugetsu" or "Sansho the Bailiff" (masterpieces both), these early movies by Mizoguchi are an interesting start into his middle-to-late work. More to come...

[movielocke]

When I first got this set I immediately rewatched Osaka Elegy and Sisters of Gion, which I’d seen on VHS and film, respectively. I found both to not quite hold up to my ecstatic (best of the 30s!) memories of them, although both are superb films, with Gion the superior. Losing the momentum, the set was pushed aside for a few years and I eventually got around to Women of the Night which I didn’t like at all, it’s more of an exploitation approach, shrill and wildly over the top throughout. That impelled me to lose momentum once again, and the set got pushed back into the ever expanding kevyip pile.

That was a critical mistake as Street of Shame is the best film of the set. The film is straightforward, a slice-of-life piece on prostitutes in the red light district. It is refreshingly honest and candid from the first scene; nothing at all like the exploitation stylings of the previous film. The film opens on a madam chatting up a police officer as the radio speaks about the debate to outlaw prositituion. From here we drift throughout the house, learning about each of the women who work there. There’s a wide variety of prostitutes, from the ambitious to the indifferent--but for all of them it is just a job. Sometimes lucrative, sometimes an unavoidable unpleasant necessity, sometimes entrapping—akin to many peoples experience of any job, anywhere—in a way, the film is a “Salary-Woman” film.

That is not to say the film embodies any tropes of the Salary-Man genre, but to obliquely and ironicly indicate the impossibility/implausibility of a Salary-Woman genre existing unless it were in the same setting as Street of Shame.

As an aside, this brings up one of my central extra-filmic takeaways of the film which is that women were basically locked out of participating equally in the economy of Japan, and for an ambitious business woman, she couldn’t just work hard at a job, be frugal and raise enough capital to start her own business because she would never be paid enough to do all that on her own—unless she were a prostitute. The lack of wage equality is not directly addressed by the film, though the lack of access to good jobs is addressed and is a central tenet underlying the film. perhaps this is all on my mind given Shinzo Abe’s recent editorial in Bloomberg.

There is a deliberate irony here in that in outlawing prostitution, they were effectively outlawing the only highpaying job a woman could access, and Mizoguchi does seem to point that out repeatedly. That this job does have a high human cost is true, but for many of those working at these jobs, that is a price they pay with eyes wide open.

[Michael Kerpan]

I love Street of Shame / Red Light District (except for one story sub-thread, which I find unsatisfactory) -- and for a while it was my top Mizoguchi. However, it was first displaced by Gion bayashi, and then by my (now seemingly permanent favorite) Chikamatsu monogatari. I also think Naruse handles a similar theme better in both When a Woman Ascends the Stairs... and Flowing.

While I would agree Women of the Night is exploitative, I find it so visually impressive I cut it a fair amount of slack.

On my last viewings, Osaka Elegy inched ahead of Sisters of Gion.

[domino harvey]

I find Musashino to be badly written and (surprisingly) badly edited. So much so that some wonderful acting and cinematography may get short shrift from me.

I caught up with the Lady of Musashino and was stunned at how awful it was. I guess almost every great director has to have at least one big bad film, and it’s hard to imagine a worse one from Mizoguchi so hopefully this is as low as it goes for me. I will say the editing elisions regarding the parents which soured you (relayed in a different post) did not impact me, and they are perhaps the only thing in this film which worked for me, as I found none of Mizoguchi’s crucial beauty in the way this is filmed or in how it unfolds. I didn’t like any of the perfs here, especially not the young cousin who was so repellent and whiny that I couldn’t figure out why all the women were throwing themselves at him. There is a lot of corner cutting plot-wise (the story and causal elements leading to the fatal act are, frankly, dumb), and watching it back to back with the similar yet wholly dissimilar Portrait of Madame Yuki (which was wonderful) did this film no favors at all

[LastMinit]

Street of Shame is my top Mizoguchi, although I hate that title. Red Light District, or even just Akasen Chitai, are way better.
For me the film is a very strong example of expertise in directing. It's subtle, it's measured to perfection, and it's full of emotion.

I missed the Late Mizoguchi box from Eureka, so I'm keen to get the film on Blu Ray. I'd jump on a single release, or an upgraded release of the Fallen Women set, but I'm guessing because most of that set are in poor condition they are easy to overlook.

I've never heard it confirmed, but I assumed, because every scan I've seen for a pre-1945 Japanese film seems to be taken from a working print, that all the negatives were destroyed in the fire-bombing of Tokyo or some such. Anyone know for sure?

[Michael Kerpan]

Street of Shame was my favorite for a good while, but it got displaced by Crucified Lovers.

For the longest time -- certainly until the early 50s -- exhibition prints were made using the original negatives. So popular films could be "loved to death". No such thing as routine use of inter-negatives and inter-positives. Films as late as 1949 (Naruse's Delinquent Girl) were lost presumably because the negative wore out and exhibition prints eventually "evaporated".

I am utterly mystified by the current unavailability of Madame Yuki. While I do find the story a bit problematic, the visual beauty of this film is simply stunning.This was available throughout the VHS era -- but seems to have gotten largely forgotten thereafter.

[domino harvey]

I am utterly mystified by the current unavailability of Madame Yuki. While I do find the story a bit problematic, the visual beauty of this film is simply stunning.This was available throughout the VHS era -- but seems to have gotten largely forgotten thereafter.

Unfortunately this isn’t even one of the films Criterion is squatting on for the Channel either, so I don’t know that there’s any hope of it coming anytime soon. It is top tier Mizoguchi for me, and you’d think restoring in HD a film this beautiful looking would be someone’s priority, but here we are

[LastMinit]

For the longest time -- certainly until the early 50s -- exhibition prints were made using the original negatives. So popular films could be "loved to death". No such thing as routine use of inter-negatives and inter-positives. Films as late as 1949 (Naruse's Delinquent Girl) were lost presumably because the negative wore out and exhibition prints eventually "evaporated".

Oh no. So we can't even blame the war, or misfortune. That is a shame.

[Michael Kerpan]

Oh -- lots of stuff was destroyed in the war, and in random fires, But terrible preservation practices for far too long were another problem. It seems like Toho (which started out as a photochemical company) did a bit better (on average) than its main competitors. And films made by smaller companies that did not get get folded into big companies have an even worse than average situation.

Madame Yuki seems to exist in better than typical condition -- so I would think restoring (and releasing it in as good a form as possible) it should have been a no-brainer. But it seems to me that Mizoguchi is mostly out of fashion (at least in the USA) today, Granted his depiction of women's situation is less enlightened than Naruse's -- but Naruse gains no extra support/interest because of this either.

[ryannichols7]

Street of Shame is my top Mizoguchi, although I hate that title. Red Light District, or even just Akasen Chitai, are way better.
For me the film is a very strong example of expertise in directing. It's subtle, it's measured to perfection, and it's full of emotion.

I missed the Late Mizoguchi box from Eureka, so I'm keen to get the film on Blu Ray. I'd jump on a single release, or an upgraded release of the Fallen Women set, but I'm guessing because most of that set are in poor condition they are easy to overlook.

I've never heard it confirmed, but I assumed, because every scan I've seen for a pre-1945 Japanese film seems to be taken from a working print, that all the negatives were destroyed in the fire-bombing of Tokyo or some such. Anyone know for sure?

I have always, always hated Street of Shame as a title. it literally goes against the movie! a 4K master of it exists and was put out in Japan (without English subs, of course)...it's been my dream for Criterion to rescue it from Eclipse, slap Tony Rayns' MOC commentary on it, and maybe record a new-ish featurette about prostitution in Japanese film or something and call it a day, I'd happily pay full price for it, a fantastic film more than worthy of not being trapped in Eclipse barebonesness (especially since I'm not sure we'd see a Bluray upgrade of this specific set due to materials limitation on the other three films)