Criterion Discussion and Random Speculation Volume 7

[nowhereisaplace]

I also hope the include both versions of Day of the Fight and both versions of Fear and Desire.

[DimitriL]

I know this is a joke, but I fully expect at least the international cut of The Shining on 4K and stuff like original audio, etc., otherwise this is a complete waste of time and effort from Criterion for a bunch of stuff that has already been released on 4K. I know Criterion has disappointed with this kind of stuff occasionally, but if you get the chance to do this I have to imagine they do it right.

Is there anything else like this we can actually (reasonably) hope for? Would they include both versions of Eyes Wide Shut for completions sake?

One of the more consistent leaks has been that both versions of The Shining will be included. They were both completely valid cuts as far as Kubrick was concerned, so it would make sense. Their track record on original audio has been pretty terrific lately. (People were very happy when they didn’t just fix the audio for The Wiz on its second printing, but added the original audio as an option.)

Eyes Wide Shut is highly unlikely. The current cut is considered the one he would’ve approved, though I’m guessing the FX-treated footage will show up as part of a supplement.

[beamish14]

I mean, we’ve long sailed past Kubrick’s original intentions with Fear and Desire, so what’s the harm of including that reel’s worth of deleted scenes from 2001?

[The Fanciful Norwegian]

Kubrick wasn't even able to keep it from circulation when he was alive and now anyone who wants to watch it can just stream it free and clear (since it's public domain) from a bajillion online sources. At this point I'd say there's a reasonable argument that doing an "official" release is preferable to letting it continue to circulate exclusively in unauthorized editions. The deleted prologue to 2001 (and the original ending of The Shining, the pie fight scene from Strangelove, etc.) aren't in the same boat, as much as I'd love to see them myself.

[beamish14]

Kubrick wasn't even able to keep it from circulation when he was alive and now anyone who wants to watch it can just stream it free and clear (since it's public domain) from a bajillion online sources. At this point I'd say there's a reasonable argument that doing an "official" release is preferable to letting it continue to circulate exclusively in unauthorized editions. The deleted prologue to 2001 (and the original ending of The Shining, the pie fight scene from Strangelove, etc.) aren't in the same boat, as much as I'd love to see them myself.

I forgot about the pie fight. He showed it to Terry Southern in 1994, so it probably still exists

[Tuppence]

I know this is a joke, but I fully expect at least the international cut of The Shining on 4K and stuff like original audio, etc., otherwise this is a complete waste of time and effort from Criterion for a bunch of stuff that has already been released on 4K. I know Criterion has disappointed with this kind of stuff occasionally, but if you get the chance to do this I have to imagine they do it right.

The "international cut" of The Shining might be better thought of as Kubrick's preferred cut. In Lee Unkrich's book, Warner Bros executive Julian Senior quoted Kubrick as saying to him: "I think the movie was good, but I think some of the stuff I took out made the movie better." I've found people usually prefer whichever version they saw first though.

[Finch]

I wasn't keen on a Kubrick set but since David MacKenzie is encoding the entire set (fixing the one issue with Criterion's original Barry Lyndon 4k) and we're getting original audio on some of the Warner titles, I'm probably going to offload everything I already bought.

[nicolas]

So far, David only liked a post that linked to Criterion’s teaser. He’s probably involved in the set but he could be just as enthusiastic about it as most of us. The recipient of David’s like unsurprisingly saw it as a confirmation and spread the word accordingly. I also hope for a Barry Lyndon re-encode but I’ll believe it when I see it as there’d technically be no reason for them to re-do it unless they add an audio commentary.

[Stefan Andersson]

A mono soundtrack for The Shining would be welcome because of mistakes in the sound/music remixing. Discussion starts at approx. 16:37 in this video:
https://archive.org/details/ShiningPhilology

See also:
https://www.gordonstainforth.co.uk/shining-music-intro
https://blah-ray.blogspot.com/2019/12/t ... -1980.html

[justeleblanc]

Yes, that Shining video essay is insanely useful.

[rrenault]

So far, David only liked a post that linked to Criterion’s teaser. He’s probably involved in the set but he could be just as enthusiastic about it as most of us. The recipient of David’s like unsurprisingly saw it as a confirmation and spread the word accordingly. I also hope for a Barry Lyndon re-encode but I’ll believe it when I see it as there’d technically be no reason for them to re-do it unless they add an audio commentary.

It’s of course possible David M is only doing some but not all the encodes in the set.

For instance, when Arrow did their Psycho set, the 4K of the original Hitchcock film was a direct port from the Universal disc while the sequels were all in-house jobs, so we’ll see if this ends up being a similar scenario where Criterion are hamstrung in terms of what they can do with the titles WB have released themselves in North America.

I’d say there’s a pretty good chance FiM do Lolita and the UA titles at the very least.

It would be cheap of them in my opinion to release a re-encoded Barry Lyndon just to lock it in a box set, especially only a year after releasing the standalone.

[The Fanciful Norwegian]

I forgot about the pie fight. He showed it to Terry Southern in 1994, so it probably still exists

The National Film Theatre screened it at a Kubrick tribute/retrospective in 1999. Columbia apparently donated the footage to the National Film Archive (now the BFI National Archive) shortly after the film's release.

[DimitriL]

So far, David only liked a post that linked to Criterion’s teaser. He’s probably involved in the set but he could be just as enthusiastic about it as most of us. The recipient of David’s like unsurprisingly saw it as a confirmation and spread the word accordingly. I also hope for a Barry Lyndon re-encode but I’ll believe it when I see it as there’d technically be no reason for them to re-do it unless they add an audio commentary.

I know there was an opening logo change so it was kind of necessary, but they did take the opportunity to fairly dramatically re-encode Trainspotting.

[nitin]

I dont know about "dramatically", noticeably yes (and even then not for most) but dramatically is hyperbole IMHO

[nicolas]

I know there was an opening logo change so it was kind of necessary, but they did take the opportunity to fairly dramatically re-encode Trainspotting.

Yeah, I know. They could’ve swapped out the logos without re-doing the entire encode but it was probably easier to just run another encode with their current presets. Criterion’s customer service didn’t know about this by the way and told people that they only changed the logo. They also defended their 2024 disc and firmly rejected claims that some of their past encodes have a blocky, DVD-like appearance. There’s someone at the company we’ve got to thank for their recent improvements across the board though. Maybe it results in a better Barry Lyndon encode but I can’t imagine it (yet).