Shadows of Forgotten Ancestors

[thebedbreakinkid]

does anyone know if and when there's going to be a release? it's owned by HVE, so you'd think criterion would get on that...

[Tommaso]

Both this one and "Sayat Nova" are announced for release by Films sans Frontieres in France already. Original release date was 27. September, but it must have been postponed, as alapage sent me a cancellation of my order. But I guess it can't take long for them to finally come out. Just go to www.alapage.com and search for Paradjanov. Different from a few weeks ago, they now even have the cover designs up, so I wonder whether they are indeed available now?!
"Ancestors", btw, is called "les chevaux de feu",which i think is the literal translation of the original title. And yes, both releases have English subs!

[vogler]

This is excellent news. Any idea if Sayat Nova will be the original longer version or the shorter edit (or both)? I have a few Films sans Frontieres dvds and they are pretty good quality especially the Eisenstein Battleship Potemkin/General Line. Hopefully these should be good.

EDIT: There's even more Parajanov listed at the Films sans Frontieres website here. The running time for Sayat Nova is listed as 75 minutes so that means it is the longer version.

[Tommaso]

Fine! There was nothing on the FSF site when I looked two weeks ago, but it seems they are there now. I will order them again immediately!

[Lino]

Criterion is rumoured to release some Parajanov in the future, for those who don't mind waiting, that is.

[miless]

Criterion is rumoured to release some Parajanov in the future, for those who don't mind waiting, that is.

of course when I asked them about it Matt Lipson said "we do not own the rights to any Paradjanov films"
but you can never trust what they say (unless it is along the lines of "yes, check the coming soon... soon")

[MichaelB]

Here's the back of the box for Shadows of our Forgotten Ancestors.

It's not exactly pin-sharp, but I could make out these details:

- PAL, no region code
- 1.33:1 picture (which I believe is correct for a Soviet film of this period)
- restored picture and sound
- Ukrainian language, French and English subtitles
- Paradjanov biography
- Production notes

...and I can just about read '92 mins' as the running time, which is what I'd expect (i.e. 95 mins minus PAL speedup).

Which looks very promising.

[MichaelB]

And here's the back of the box of The Colour of Pomegranates.

The colour scheme makes this much harder to read, but I could make out:

- Region-free PAL
- 1.33:1 picture (which I believe is correct)
- Restored image and sound
- Armenian language, French and English subtitles
- Paradjanov biography
- The Life of Sayat Nova

Alapage is also selling Ashik Kerib, but this looks like a clone of the Ruscico disc. Not that there's much wrong with that - it's by far the best version of the film that I've seen, not least because it gives you a choice of soundtrack language (the distracting Azerbaijani-plus-Georgian voiceover that played in cinemas, Azerbaijani-plus-Russian or, far better, Azerbaijani on its own). It's remixed to Dolby 5.1, but for once I'm not that bothered as the soundtrack consists almost entirely of music with just occasional snatches of unsynchronised speech - I suspect the lack of the voiceover helped, but I much preferred this to what I heard in the cinema.

[Tommaso]

Oh yes, I would wholeheartedly recommend that Ruscico version of "Ashik". The 5.1. mix gives some unnecessary additional ambience when played back on a normal stereo system, but otherwise it's very fine, miles ahead of the Kino version. Some good extras (interviews and documentaries), too.

Beware, however, of Ruscico's "Surami Fortress", which only has a Georgian with forced Russian voice-over audio, which completely marrs the viewing experience. What a shame, because otherwise it's also very good indeed. Let's hope these FnF releases sell well, so that they also do a new dvd of "Surami", which is perhaps Parad's best film.

[MichaelB]

Well, since I wrote that last post, I persuaded Sight & Sound to commission a comparative review of all Paradjanov DVD releases to date (i.e. the Kino, Ruscico and Films sans Frontieres duos).

Does anyone know of any more DVDs that I can stir into the pot?

[vogler]

There is an excellent quality Japanese dvd of Sayat Nova here. The image quality is much better than the Kino dvd but it is the shorter censored version. It also has no English subtitles.

[MichaelB]

Thanks for that - but I think I'll stick to English-subtitled versions (given that there are two out there already, so it's not as though there's no alternative).

Mind you, if the Films sans frontieres version turns out to be dreadful, I might change my mind!

(Then again, it's going to have to be REALLY appalling to descend to the Kino disc's level...)

[vogler]

Michael, I am just wondering if you have seen Colour of Pomegranate at the cinema. If so which version was it, the longer version or the soviet censored version, and also what was the quality of the print? I wondered if the difference in image quality of the Kino dvd and the Japanese dvd was due to the shorter censored version being preserved more carefully because it had government approval. The difference between the two dvds is astounding and I would like to know if there are actually better quality prints of the longer version and if they are as high quality as the print used for the Japanese dvd.

[MichaelB]

Michael, I am just wondering if you have seen Colour of Pomegranate at the cinema. If so which version was it, the longer version or the soviet censored version, and also what was the quality of the print?

Many years ago (late 1980s/early 1990s, if I remember rightly). I can't remember which version it was, but it was a 16mm print, and the quality was very poor. It was particularly disappointing because I'd recently seen a 35mm revival (in a new print) of Shadows in a big Paris cinema, which was just about the best introduction imaginable.

I wondered if the difference in image quality of the Kino dvd and the Japanese dvd was due to the shorter censored version being preserved more carefully because it had government approval.

Possibly, but with these films it's very hard to be sure. After all, this reviewer of the Kino Suram Fortress/Ashik Kerib set made the rather sweeping claim that:

the visuals can't really be compared with your average DVD, given the relatively low-tech methods with which the films were made and released.

...which the gorgeous Ruscico restoration exposed for the presumptuous (and borderline racist) idiocy that it was.

(There's a Beaver comparison of Ashik Kerib here, which I link to with the caveat that Gary's reviewing the NTSC conversion of the Ruscico disc, not the PAL original. Even so, it's still miles better than the Kino).

[vogler]

Many years ago (late 1980s/early 1990s, if I remember rightly). I can't remember which version it was, but it was a 16mm print, and the quality was very poor. It was particularly disappointing because I'd recently seen a 35mm revival (in a new print) of Shadows in a big Paris cinema, which was just about the best introduction imaginable.

I have a feeling, and I hope I'm wrong, that there may not be any prints of a similar quality to the one used for the Japanese dvd of the long cut of the film. This would mean that the Films sans Frontieres version might not be much (or any) better than the Kino. Hopefully I will get a nice surprise though. If the longer prints are not as good then it would have been nice if they could have included both cuts of the film which would have easily fit on a dual layer dvd. Has anybody seen a print of the film which they know to be the longer cut that was significantly better than the Kino print? Hopefully it was just a bad print that Kino used.

Possibly, but with these films it's very hard to be sure. After all, this reviewer of the Kino Suram Fortress/Ashik Kerib set made the rather sweeping claim that:

the visuals can't really be compared with your average DVD, given the relatively low-tech methods with which the films were made and released.

...which the gorgeous Ruscico restoration exposed for the presumptuous (and borderline racist) idiocy that it was.

This also applies to Colour of Pomegranate. I think the Japanese dvd shows that the film originally looked fantastic and far better than the Kino print. The cinematography looks very sharp and the colours wonderfully vibrant - nothing like the Kino at all. It seems that was the best Kino could get however.

[MichaelB]

I have a feeling, and I hope I'm wrong, that there may not be any prints of a similar quality to the one used for the Japanese dvd of the long cut of the film. This would mean that the Films sans Frontieres version might not be much (or any) better than the Kino.

Well, as the Kino is NTSC, windowboxed and has fixed (and vomit-yellow) subtitles, I think we can safely predict that the FsF disc will be superior to at least some extent.

After all, we know the subtitles are removable (as it offers French and English), and we can probably assume that it will be native PAL - so even if it's still windowboxed we can hopefully count on a higher image resolution.

But my copy should turn up within the next fortnight or so, and I'll find out then.

[vogler]

I'd forgotten about the fixed and 'vomit-yellow' subs - I HATE yellow subs. I had also forgotten about the rest of the issues you mention, I was just thinking about the actual quality of the print. You are right though, the dvd will almost certainly be better in many ways even if the print isn't (and it probably will be).

[MichaelB]

I'm continuing this discussion on another thread - it seemed more appropriate for the International DVD forum given that the decent Paradjanov releases are on non-US labels.

[Skritek]

There is a song by a Ukrainian folk band called Haydamaky about the film.

It is at least called "Tini zabutykh predkiv", it contains mixed in snippets from the film, so I'm pretty sure it's referencing it . I have to admit it is not their best, but certainly worth a listen...just for curiositys sake.

(Haven't found a stream yet though.)

[ivuernis]

Looks like Kino are set to release a Sergei Paradjanov boxset in early 2008 according to Amazon with Shadows of Our Forgotten Ancestors on DVD, what look like new editions of The Legend of Suram Fortress and Ashik Kerib and the existing release of The Colour of Pomegranates.

[Grigulevich]

A heads up for anyone in Alberta, Canada. Edmonton's Metro Cinema is screening Shadows of Forgotten Ancestors Saturday April 19.

Don't know what exactly is going to be projected, film or digital, but Zeidler Hall is equipped to do both, has a 16' x 32' screen, and has a room capacity of 240.

[Adam]

Brief question for those who have seen the film. I just saw Shadows at LACMA in LA, and last saw it about ten years ago at a previous series in LACMA. From ten years ago, my most remembered shot was a swirling tracking shot in which the camera did a fast circular track around the main characters who were dancing, twirling in the opposite direction, wide shot, with a variety of golden and red-hued leaves/bushes in between the camera and the characters. This shot was NOT in the print that I just saw, although there was a similar circular tracking shot, but more close-up of their faces, and no autumnal brush.

Two other friends who attened both screenings also remembered that shot from the earlier screening.

Are we all going crazy? Are there multiple versions of the film? The folks at LACMA, including one person who knew Paradjanov who introduced the film, say quite possibly, although they didn't remember the shot to which we referred. Do any of you? It was one of the most tremendous shots in the film, and for me its absence was noteworthy. Is it on the Kino DVD? The print at LACMA had a Kino logo at the head of the film.

[Grigulevich]

Adam, with all respect, memory is a funny thing...

Nevertheless, the scene you must be referring to might be at ~48:00 (just after Ivan climbs the gnarled tree & picks the lone apple), showing Ivan and I believe Palagna on horseback as well as a drummer, fiddler and others in some sort of woods - thenceforth the swirling camera with foliage between it and the people.

The scene is intact on my 2004 VCD release on Klassik Video (Kyiv), 98 minutes. Haven't seen the new Kino DVD.

[Adam]

Nevertheless, the scene you must be referring to might be at ~48:00 (just after Ivan climbs the gnarled tree & picks the lone apple), showing Ivan and I believe Palagna on horseback as well as a drummer, fiddler and others in some sort of woods - thenceforth the swirling camera with foliage between it and the people.

The scene is intact on my 2004 VCD release on Klassik Video (Kyiv), 98 minutes. Haven't seen the new Kino DVD.

Thank you for checking! That could well be it and dancing could have been added in my mind. But is it a wider shot - full shots, or at least cowboys, not just faces? And is it in on the Kino as well?

[Grigulevich]

Yes, you'd be correct in saying there are wide/full shots as well as faces...

I'm not buying the new Kino dvd release until after I've seen the screening on the 19th.