Isao Takahata

[milk114]

i love ketchup soup with saltines

[Jun-Dai]

### WARNING: SPOILERS IN THE POSTS BELOW ###


I just rewatched Hotaru no Haka, in no small part because of Kerpan's strong recommendation. While I still find the film profoundly irritating (the music especially so) and the drama to be over the top, I was able to get a glimpse at how the film would be interesting to people less bothered (or possibly even moved) by those things. The moral ambiguity of the film is certainly richer and more interesting than I had remembered (especially after a long discussion with my roommate, who, much to my surprise, sympathized with the aunt). Additionally the film is clearly working on an allegorical level (as has been mentioned in this thread). I feel as though Seita is the government of Japan and Setsuko the people, or the prewar society of Japan, which was in some ways "killed" by the naivete, blind pride, stubbornness and ignorance of the government.

Another interesting point that came up when discussing the film with my roommate (who is from India) is that he thought the main character was around 14 (which the liner notes agree with), whereas I (and my girlfriend) both thought he was around 10 (probably in part because he seemed to be around the same age as Gen in the comic Hadashi no Gen. This clearly changes the level of responsibility that one can easily ascribe to the child, and thus the level of moral ambiguity in the film.

I shall be sure to rewatch the film again in the near future. As the entire film is in kansai-ben, it is very good practice for me to listen to it. I simply have to ignore the music.

[Michael Kerpan]

Glad you gave this another chance. ;~}

I don't think one should dump ALL responsibility on Seita (who I agree is around 13 or 14). He does not behave especially responsibly -- but (and its a big but) -- neither does his aunt. It seems pretty clear that the aunt makes no effort (and is not likely to make any effort) to protect Setsuko. She does not like being saddled with a young (and unhappy) child. He can't look for a job, because he knows that he is the only person who will look after Setsuko in the event of an emergency. Unfortunately, he is also an idiot. (is this redundant -- when discussing boys of this age?)

I find it impossible to side with the aunt. No matter what one thinks of Seita's behavior, she is greedy in her own right -- and callous too. Others in her own family are (at times) somewhat troubled by her behavior, but are too intimidated to really defend the children. If Seita should have behaved better, so should his elders (not just the aunt, but the hoarder-farmer, etc.).

I think this has allegorical elements, but that one shouldn't press these too far. I think this is too complex -- and operating on too many levels -- to reduce the film to a single message (or point of view).

I just watched another wonderful Takahata film, btw -- Yanagawa horiwari monogatari / The Story of Yanagawa's Canals. This was a three year long labor of love by Takahata (supported by Miyazaki, who served as producer). It is a live action documentary (nearly 3 hours long) on the canals of Yanagawa (a fairly small city with hundreds of kilometers of canals). This covers almost every aspect of the subject -- the history, the hydro-engineering principles, the role of the canals in everyday life (past and present) and the story of their rescue from oblivion (due to a campaign to rescue most of these from conceting over and "sewerization") and restoration. Not only interesting, but absolutely gorgeous visually (except for the informative -- but not necessarily visually stunning technical animations).

MEK

[Jun-Dai]

I find it impossible to side with the aunt. No matter what one thinks of Seita's behavior, she is greedy in her own right -- and callous too.

In that case, you will be interested in what my roommate had to say about that. As I recall it, he felt that her position was understandable, particularly during a time of war, while Seita, had no excuse other than his youthfulness (which, at the age of 14, is not such a great excuse). Seita knows that he should be working, not only to help out his hosts, but also because it is wartime--everyone is working, and no one gets slack. His aunt's scolding of him comes in degrees of concern: he does not attempt to find a means of enrolling in school (because his old one has burned down), he does not attempt to find work, he does not attempt to help around the house (he even leaves his dishes in the sink). His aunt, on the other hand, while she may have a loose tongue, is never checked by any of her relatives, and is even bolstered by the concern of neighbors. It is significant that she does not kick Seita out, but rather he chooses to leave out of his own damaging pride.

Part of my roommate's defense of his position came from the fact that in Indian stories, orphans brought in are never treated as well as immediate family, and that anyone that lazes about, regardless of their circumstance, is soon dealt with. If the film were to be shown in India, he believes, the audience would assume that they are supposed to sympathize with the aunt. In that light, the aunt's behavior does not seem particularly harsh, and given all the of qualities of the aunt that are designed to make her sympathetic (my roommate had to point these out to me, as I had forgotten them all in my alienation from her), and all of the qualities of Seita that are designed to make him at fault for raising her ire, it is clearly intentional on Takahata's part that she is not really to be demonized, but rather she simply seems like a demon to the children. Seita is at fault for demonizing her. I suspect that part of our demonization of her in watching the film comes from our own background and general outlook as Westerners, particularly those who have not been on the losing side of a war like WWII. I wonder how adult Japanese audiences felt about the relationship between Seita and the aunt.

Dammit. In presenting my roommate's argument, I think I'm beginning to convince myself. Hrmm..

I think this is too complex -- and operating on too many levels -- to reduce the film to a single message (or point of view).

No. But that doesn't mean that we oughtn't draw single messages and points of view out of the film to enrich our understanding of it. ;-) I try never to let the complexity of something prevent me from trying to interpret it.

[Michael Kerpan]

Probably spoiler territory:

Spoiler

I think it is easy to make up excuses for the aunt -- but I don't think Takahata intended her conduct to be justifiable (even less than he tried to justify Seita's conduct). Whatever excuse she has for being annoyed at Seita, this does not apply to Setsuko -- who is defenseless -- and who she treats equally brutally. The aunt tells Setsuko that her mother is dead when Seita is on an errand -- and doesn't bother to tell Seita what she had done. Later that night, rather than comforting her (or at least being sympathetic), she is furious that the little girl dares to cry -- and disturb the sleep of obviously more valuable family members.

To me (and I would bet, Takahata), the aunt typifies the worst of the mentality that tacitly supported Japanese militarist adventurism. Recognizing Seita made poor choices does not mean that one needs to find the aunt anything other than despicable.

(Based on about 5 viewings so far).

[Jun-Dai]

While there are definitely areas of questionable behavior on her part (most notably letting Setsuko know that her mother has died), she is not generally portrayed as a despicable character so much as a character in tough times with little room for sympathy. The family make minor and subtle indications that perhaps she goes a little too far in scolding them, but they make no motion to intervene, indicating that the situation has not gotten out of hand in their view.

The aunt typifies the worst of the mentality that tacitly supported Japanese militarist adventurism.

This I doubt, because Takahata could have gone much farther, but instead his portrayal of the aunt's coldness and meanness is fairly light. She is protecting her own before others, and she is also reacting to Seita's indolence and irresponsibility (which is reflecting poorly on her) at a time when a whole nation is working to survive. Certainly Seita's character flaws are far more dangerous and destructive than hers. The aunt's greatest sin is to be cold and uncaring, and this is significantly moderated.

and disturb the sleep of obviously more valuable family members.

They are obviously more valuable in that they are contributing. Because Seita will not relinquish any supervision of Setsuko to the aunt, and he will not do any work himself, she is making the point that it is bad enough for Seita to do nothing and live off of the family--they are also making things harder for the family in other ways. Life is obviously hard for them--after all, the aunt has to pick burnt rice from the bottom of the pot (a nice subtlety on Takahata's part, I might add).

In a way, I think there are two basic readings of the film: one is where the aunt is the demon and Seita is the misguided hero. This is clearly the impression that any child would have coming out of the film, and it is also the impression that I came out of the film with after the first two viewings. The second reading is subtler--the more obvious half is that Seita is in fact incredibly self-destructive, which most adults will pick up on (though I admit that I didn't really in my first viewing, as I was so wrapped up in the melodrama and in being annoyed at the film); and the less obvious half is that the aunt is in fact not a villain. She is cold-hearted largely by necessity: she can scarcely afford to feed two children. Her family knows this and doesn't step in. A neighbor knows this and tells Seita to go back and apologize to her. I wouldn't have picked up on this after five viewings even, if it hadn't been for my roommate (to whom it was obvious), because I think it's a difficult concept for modern Westerners to grasp; we are accustomed to much more pleasing reflections of our social self in our movies--but in the end generosity wears very thin during times of extreme hardship, and the aunt exemplifies this perfectly.

[Michael Kerpan]

In a way, I think there are two basic readings of the film: one is where the aunt is the demon and Seita is the misguided hero. This is clearly the impression that any child would have coming out of the film, and it is also the impression that I came out of the film with after the first two viewings. The second reading is subtler--the more obvious half is that Seita is in fact incredibly self-destructive

You are creating an either-or choice which I flatly reject.

I am 50+, not a child -- and never saw Seita as "heroic". I saw him as a foolish, somewhat spoiled child, overwhelmed by responsibilities that no child should be _expected_ to cope with. I have children of Seita's age (well, a bit older now) and come from a reasonably ethnic and old-fashioned background. So, according to your theory, I should presumably have viewed the aunt sympathetically. But, I didn't -- not the first time, not the fifth -- and I daresay, not ever.

The aunt's core opinions are not, per se, unreasonable. It is coldness at her core that makes her unsympathetic (and even ourtright cruel). You are, of course, free to make the aunt the "misguided heroine" of the story -- but I think this constitutes an extreme misreading of the film.

It is not the FACT that the aunt informs the little girl about her mother's fate. It is that she is completely callous -- and dishonest (she purports not to know what's bothering Setsuko -- as I recall). You justify her conduct by saying "her life is hard". However, the children's old neighbor (the nice lady) had lost everything -- yet was far more caring and compassionate. It is through cues like this that Takahata lets one know that the aunt's behavior is, in fact, unacceptable.

Seita screws up, to be sure -- but Japan (and most of its solid grown-up citizens) screwed up far worse. You seem to resist this part of Takahata's story -- and find it more comfortable to put the whole weight of the sins of Japan's adults (of that era) on the shoulder's of a naive, emotionally shell-shocked boy.

[Jun-Dai]

I've come on too strong, and I realize now that I've implied in a patronizing manner that you have the mind of a child. This was not my intention, and I apologize. I would edit it, but that would surely be worse.

That said, I still believe that there are levels of observation in the film which I think Takahata is intentionally creating. I think that most little children (pure speculation here, I don't have any handy) would see the film from Seita's perspective, and feel that he had done the best he could under the circumstances, and that the world had simply been too harsh for him. Given the way I viewed films 15-20 years ago, that is the interpretation I think I would have had.

As an adult of course, we see that there are serious problems with the way that Seita behaves, and that he essentially brought about his own demise, even if it was his tragic circumstances that allowed him the precipice to walk off of in the first place. In my first viewing, I think I under-felt (is there a word for that?) the extent of Seita's self-destructiveness, but it was certainly present in my view of the film.

I think that many people will view the aunt as evil or despicable, and in a certain sense the film frames her that way (in the sense that we are seeing her through the children's eyes). But I now strongly feel that Takahata has done a good deal to make her quite human, but he has hidden it all behind the sense of persecution that children feel.

The aunt is by no means a heroine. But nor is she thoroughly despicable. She isn't any more representative of prewar Japanese society as I understand it than she is representative of postwar Japanese society. She is simply human, and quite normal, and not at all colder or harsher than one would expect of most people in such difficult times.

If Seita is 14, then he no longer is really a boy--he is a young man, mostly capable of thinking for himself and caring for himself, and certainly old enough to realize that what he is doing is wrong, and that he should be working to provide for himself and Setsuko. That I should put the weight of the sins of Japan's adults (or government anyways) is more a matter of allegory.

In any case, I'll be watching the film again soon, but unless I've missed something in my first two viewings, I don't think that Takahata is really giving us the message that the aunt's behavior is unacceptable (though it is unpleasant and tactless). On the contrary, I think we are to understand that Seita's pride and determination to see himself as a victim of her is what is unacceptable and ultimately the cause of Setsuko's death.

[Michael Kerpan]

You needn't apologize. ;~}

I suspect we just have an irresolvable disagreement on the issue of the Aunt. I simply cannot agree with your statement that she is "not at all colder or harsher than one would expect of most people in such difficult times".

I have a pretty iron-clad rule -- the way people treat little children largely governs how I evaluate them. Mind you, people who simply deal awkwardly with them (due to lack of familiarity) get considerable slack. But it takes a very "special" kind of person to be deliberately cruel to a helpless little child. And, if I could act with impunity, I would happily beat all such people to a pulp.

The children's aunt is, in Biblical terms, "a whited sepulchre". She mouths conventional truths and acts "righteously", but in her heart, she is just plain rotten. Good people, of any time or place, simply don't treat an orphaned 3 or 4 year old the way she treats Setsuko. And, to my mind (and I think Takahata's), this is unforgivable. The film shows that kindness is possible (even from non-relatives -- viz. the ex-neighbor and the police examiner), but that the majority of "respectable" Japanese didn't much give a damn. (Most strongly shown in the train station scene, where their biggest objection seems to have been targeted at the "rudeness" of people dying in public).

Again, I would call people's attention to Ozu's (long-preceding) companion film, "Record of a Tenement Gentleman" -- which picks up the story of Japan's "lost" children a few months (not more than a year, in any event) after the period of GotF -- and features as protagonist -- an older woman who starts out as crabbed as the Aunt in GotF. The film traces her "enlightenment" as to her duty to help the helpless -- as it reminds the Japanese audience as a whole that it has still failed to fulfill this duty adequately. (The contemporary audience didn't want to be reminded -- and consequently largely rejected this film -- just as they rejected the equally critical "Hen in the Wind").

MEK

[Steven H]

I seem to be leaning Michael's way on this, as I've seen the film a handful of times and remember much being made to sentimentalize the children's plight. The aunt is demonized (in my point of view) and it makes me think the director intended this (knowing what Jun-Dai has said about India) as a criticism against his own society's way of dealing with children during the war (like Record of a Tenement Gentleman, and seeing as how this film was influenced by Ozu there's probably some weight in a reference there).

I also think a link to this in the mise en scene might be that the child does seem so young, even though he maybe be in his teenage years. He's portrayed as an innocent youth fighting against a system that he seemingly doesn't want to partake in. Maybe his lack of will to work has more to do with a desire to exit the social scheme that seems to be leaving him to die (perhaps this is even a tale about the importance of parenthood, and how the lack of a mother or father figure can lead to self-destructive tendencies).

[Michael Kerpan]

...who based Seita on his own younger self, definitely saw plenty to criticize in his own horrendous teen-aged judgment (as he viewed it after the fact). Takahata also saw Seita as having some real culpability for what happened. However, saying Seita is partly at fault does not excuse those who were even more blameworthy.

Wonderful film -- but I still love "Only Yesterday" far more. ;~}

[Steven H]

Wonderful film -- but I still love "Only Yesterday" far more. ;~}

I bet Only Yesterday would be a wonder to see in the theater. I can only hope to someday get that chance. I need to get my priorities straight and order Yamadas on DVD already. What have I been waiting for?

[Michael Kerpan]

I bet Only Yesterday would be a wonder to see in the theater. I can only hope to someday get that chance.

I'm sure it would be wonderful.

I need to get my priorities straight and order Yamadas on DVD already. What have I been waiting for?

What indeed. ;~}

Takahata's "Jarinko Chie" has just come out on DVD in its movie version -- but the hoped-for subs don't seem to be there. This is also being released theatrically in France -- but in dubbed form (maybe there will also be a subbed version that will wind up on DVD).

[Steven H]

interesting as hell... Miyazaki Hayao and Ghibli Museum:

Miyazaki Hayao's Ghibli Museum has seen many visitors since its opening during October 2001. "Studio Ghibli" is a word familiar to many anime fans, as it is the production house of the legendary anime director Miyazaki, who has produced and directed many Japanese anime classics.

This DVD is produced by Miyazaki's long time collaborator Takahata Isao as an introduction to the work of the Ghibli Museum. It details the design of the museum, and it includes detailed explaination of all four floors of exhibits in the museum. For fans who are still waiting for the chance to visit the museum, this DVD will give you a personalized tour of this unique space as though you are physically there!

The details of the DVD are as follows:

Let's get lost together (15 minutes)
Interview with Pixar's John Lasseter (26 minutes)
Interview with famed Russian animator Yury Norshtein (26 minutes)
Photo Gallery

I can only hope the Norstein interview would be subtitled. And what on earth is "Let's get lost together"?

According to cdjapan.co.jp one of the upcoming Shinoda films (released today, I think), Shonen jidai (Childhood Days) is related to this film:

In a variation of the plot for "Grave of the Fireflies," Shinoda-san studies the cultural conflicts created when, during the bombing of Tokyo during World War II, whole urban populations fled into the countryside. Naturally, this created a conflict between the urban and rural cultures. Shinji (a young boy evacuated from Tokyo) and his new schoolmates (who are villagers) don't exactly know what is going on in the war. They see the B-29 bombers and the glow of cities on fire, but the problems of being separated from one's mother and surviving among one's peers loom larger than international politics.

This *was* the Shinoda I was anticipating the least out of the series, but now I'm extremely curious to see how it compares.

[Steven H]

I've watched this film a few times in the last week and I definitely feel this is my favorite Isao Takahata film (previously loved Grave of the Fireflies and Pom Poco, although I haven't seen Gosho the Cellist, but will soon). There is a tremendous confidence in this film, which is hilarious by the way, in the artwork and the storyline. I'm going to attempt a rambling description of the film and the Japanese R2 DVD release (a bargain at $40! I kid, but it's worth it), though I may have a few facts wrong.

The art seems to retain a sketchy four color comic strip feel while also looking towards the classical japanese hanging art prints (especially Hokusai). The coloring is a cross between woodblock and watercolor and seemingly through 2D digital means there is little cel use evident, which gives the film a kind of beauty I rarely associate with animated films. The characters and the environment seem to be equally alive, which is extremely stimulating and grows with each viewing. You partly expect the trees to start dancing a la early Mickey Mouse, etc. The exceptions to this rule are a few instances of more obvious digital coloring (I'm referring to pixilated gradients), and there are some scenes that include Rotoscoping (that overly realistic digital animation most people connect with Waking Life). The characters (Pet Dog, Grandma, Mother, Father, Son, and Daughter) themselves resemble Bill Watterson's Calvin and Hobbes and especially Schultz�s Peanuts as much if not more than a lo-fi style of anime.

The story is told in a large number of short and shorter vignettes, culminating in 90 chapters on the DVD, and adding up to quite a loving and completely enjoyable narrative about this functional family. These follow one or a few or all of the family around for a moment or a day, and single out adventures both small and large. You come to see these cartoons as people, they're three dimensional yet inhumanly silly. Outlandish gestures and pratfalls abound, and faces frozen for beat after beat enhance the humor (this last kind of visual comedy reminds me of Ozu, think Ryu Chishu's reply to Setsuko Hara in Late Spring when she tells him the man he thought she was interested in is already engaged to be married). There are also many segues (some of these are unforgettable) and fantasy scenes (worth the price of admission alone, the Masked Rider and Marriage Ceremony bits). And for Kurosawa fans there�s a visual nod to Ikiru near the end (I'm sure there are more bits like these, they�ll hopefully become more evident through more viewings).

For those that have seen the film, I have to ask how you feel about the soundtrack? It came off a little cloying at parts (the na na na na na na song) though incredibly infectious. Most of the music I would call minimalist, but there are some dynamic uses of orchestral work. Also, while I was watching it occurred to me that it could be a little shorter, though I loved it and can't think of anything I'd want cut out. I'll just stick with the latter notion, personally.

The DVD is gorgeous, and the subtitles seem extremely appropriate and almost literal. Especially important are the translations of the haiku poems scattered throughout, which read, seemingly, as elegant and honest as they were probably intended. Nice little comic book insert as well. I doubt Disney will ever release this in the US on DVD, as the film did very poorly in japanese theaters when it was distributed in 99.

[Michael Kerpan]

This didn't do all that well even in Japan -- and I have never quite understood why.

The opening sequences -- and the fiurst real episode (where the daughter gets "lost") are some of the best and funniest animation I've seen. If everything that follows isn't quite at this level -- it is still generallty wonderful.

This definitely has a number of links into the home dramas of Ozu and colleagues.

I take it you have not yet seen "Only Yesterday" (as it isn't in your list of Takahata favorites). ;~}

"Goshu" is just plain wonderful -- easily equal to the Ghibli work.

[Steven H]

Ah! Yes, I've seen and *love* Only Yesterday, but I don't own it. Would you recommend the Japanese over the cheaper version? I knew I was forgetting one. I'm very excited about Gosho, and if you can think of more links to Ozu in this film I'd like to hear (not that I'm lazy...)

I think I laughed the hardest in the film when the father begins to ponder "freedom". The timing is just too perfect. And the sequence describing the mother's lack of "home economics" skills is priceless.

I'm chuckling just thinking about this film. The bird that lands on Noboru's head after the father's talk of "studying"... bwaha!

[Michael Kerpan]

I would suspect that the HK version of "Only Yesterday" is pretty good -- but I haven't seen it. Some screen shots from the R3 release.

I broke down and ordered the unsubbed movie version of Takahata's "Jarinko Chie" (Chie the Pest) -- and it's not even in Tokyo Japanese -- but Osaka dialect. (I had really hoped this would be subbed).

My favorite moment of "Yamadas" (after the beginning) is the TV set duel. I die every time I watch it.

[Pinback]

I was holding out for the Australian release of this film, supposedly coming from Madman in 2005 as part of their Studio Ghibli Collection. I'm not sure it will materialise anytime soon though, and I'm absolutely dying to see this film: it's the only gap in my Ghibli viewing. I do love Isao Takahata's films, Pom Poko being my current favourite. yesasia's deal on shipping looks pretty good to me, I think it's time to shell out for the Japanese version of My Neighbors the Yamadas.

[Michael Kerpan]

There was a French release of Yamadas -- but it's colors didn't look right (based on screen shots I saw). Only French subs, in any event. I think the Japanese release is the best bet for this one.

Maybe someone can rip the subs when the French version of "Jarinko Chie" comes out.

Takahata's "Aanne of Green Gables" series is also quite wonderful -- even if the animation is a bit more primitive than the current Japanese standard.

[artfilmfan]

"Only Yesterday": I love the scene with the train at night. It's so beautifully done.

[Steven H]

"Only Yesterday": I love the scene with the train at night. It's so beautifully done.

Auteurist alert? Does Takahata always include a train scene? Ghibli in general seems to usually contain one (though, it would certainly seem wildly out of place in a few of the films, Nausicaa, Mononoke, etc). I distinctly remember them in Takahata's Yamadas, Only Yesterday, Grave of the Fireflies, as well as Totoro, Spirited Away, and Whispers of the Heart (my favorite train scene? funny and beautifully done). Shot in the dark (unfortunately my memory of Porco Rosso and a couple others aren't too good, but with subsequent viewings I'll keep a look out) but by my count I'm already leaning towards "most".

I wonder what the statistical probability is their next film will contain a train scene?

I'm bookmarking the Anne of Green Gables series, I'm sure I'll eventually buy it. I'm also very interested in his documentary Story of the Yanagawa Canals (a very high imdb rating... for what it's worth).

[Michael Kerpan]

Unfortunately, there is no English subbed version of "Anne". We got a Korean set -- which was initially billed as having English subs, but turned out not to have them. Luckily, my wife has memorized the first volume of "Anne of Green Gables" -- so she can "interpret" anything I can't.

"Yanagawa Canals" is visually gorgeous for the most part -- there are some clunky factual animations here and there, but these are sort of endearing. The English subs on the Japanese DVD are fine.

I think we see Porco's plane on a train car, being carried to Milan -- but I don't think we see HIM on the train. I don't recall any train rides in "Pom Poko" offhand -- and none in "Goshu". I think the public transportation we see in "Yamadas" may be a bus rather than a train. But the Ghibli crew (like Ozu before them) loves trains.

[Pinback]

More details on the Studio Ghibli Museum DVD.

So has Takahata officially retired? I know that Miyazaki has signed on to make more films with Ghibli, and I assume that The Cat Returns was just the first of many Ghibli films for Hiroyuki Morita. I recall that both Takahata and Miyazaki were set to retire before the death of Whisper of the Heart director Yoshifumi Kondou, but Miyazaki seems to be as active now as ever. I'm just wondering if Takahata has any plans to direct again, or if My Neighbors the Yamadas was indeed his final film...

[Michael Kerpan]

I don't think Takahata has made any official pronouncements -- but I doubt he'll ever make another Ghibli film. He has continued to be involved with various projects -- such as an animated anthology devoted to the poet Basho and the Japanese version of "Kirikou"..