Saarijas wrote:I have been secretly hoping for a criterion release...
Me, too... for a long time...
The Fanciful Norwegian wrote:It's nice (and a bit surprising) that they're using the proper English translation instead of the traditional U.S. title.
I'm with you. At first, I thought the high price might a weird way to get people to acknowledge the real title...
I think just like Seven Samurai, they need to make this a catalog release. You know what I mean? Like a thesis project all wrapped in one package. A one stop research shop for massive amounts of details. It truly is a groundbreaking work, and so much can be said, and has already been said...
I'm surprised, though, that Critierion never put out a laserdisc... How did they get the rights? Was it from one of those recent agreements between Kino or that other company I can't remember? Anyway, awesome news. It just needs to be decked out with all the trimmings until an hd-dvd comes along.
denti alligator wrote:This is among the (now) short list of "essential classics" that I've been meaning to see for over a decade now, but have continued putting it off. I even have a DVD-R of the Image release, but keep delaying watching it. Now I've got a really good reason to wait until February to pop my Bicycle Thieves cherry. Thank you Criterion!
Same here - it is one of the major films I've never seen and I've felt very guilty for the past year not buying the Region 2 disc, but since I've got enough to watch already and I was sure a Criterion would come along sooner or later I held off. (OK, I did cave in and buy the MoC Shoeshine and The Children Are Watching Us this year to keep myself going!)
Absolutely true story - I was in the NFT bookshop (back in the 1990s, when they had a decent one that also sold videos), and I overheard an American voice asking the woman behind the till whether the VHS they were selling of Bicycle Thieves contained a sequel to The Bicycle Thief!
And I totally agree with those praising Criterion for getting it right - the original title is clearly plural, and should be plural, and since Ladri di biciclette unambiguously translates as Bicycle Thieves there really shouldn't be any controversy about this.
That said, literal translations aren't always the way to go, as The 400 Blows proves - I honestly think Wild Oats, the title that was mooted back when it was first screened, would have been better, as at least it would have meant something to an Anglophone audience. But it's a bit late now!
montgomery wrote:I know "Bicycle Thieves" is the more literal translation, but I've always preferred the title "The Bicycle Thief."
Wait a minute. You don't think the plural is absolutely fundemental to the film? De Sica chose to title it that for a reason.
I'm not saying that I wish Criterion had stuck with the old translation, or that the real title, "Bicycle Thieves" is not apt. I'm also not arguing with the fact that "Bicycle Thieves" is the correct translation. I just like the title "The Bicycle Thief" better, and I think that as a title (if not the intended title), it works just as well. No, I don't think the plural is fundamental, though it's more literally accurate. I like the ambiguity of "The Bicycle Thief." I'm not complaining or trying to stir up controversy, I'm just stating a preference. Maybe it makes me a philistine.
montgomery wrote:I just like the title "The Bicycle Thief" better, and I think that as a title (if not the intended title), it works just as well. No, I don't think the plural is fundamental, though it's more literally accurate.
Simply The Bicycle Thief carries the implication that there is only one thief in the story, as if the consequences of what is to come all stem from this thief whom the audience is not sympathetic with. Making the title plural sells what the Italian neo-realist period was about. The bike is key to economic stability and even though the father was given the chance for this job, he would steal a bike if he had to, just as it was done to him.
Maybe it makes me an asshole, but preferring one name just because you like the sound of it better boggles my mind.
As you can tell I place great importance in the title. I'm sorry my sarcasm didn't come through in the last post.
This film was one of the first foreign films I ever rented, when I was 14. When I watched it, I thought "The Bicycle Thief" was the accurate title. I thought the title was a particularly clever and mysterious one. It struck me as both ambiguous and specific. Yes, there is more than one thief in the movie. It is clear there are many bicycle thieves, not even taking into account the end of the film. But as I watched it, I thought it was interesting how the title referred to someone who wasn't really much of a character in the film. At the end of the film, of course, the title takes on a different meaning, referring to someone else. Because of this, I don't think the implication is that there is only one thief in the film, or that it refers to either of them specifically. For me, it was consistent with neo-realism, because it ends up being ambiguous, referring to no one in particular, but also by being more specific, implying that anyone in the film could be "The Bicycle Thief," someone who is forced to steal because of the economy. Never once, when I watched the film with the wrong title, did I think that the "consequences of what is to come all stem from this thief." The economic problems in the film speak for themselves pretty clearly, even to a 14 year old.
Nevertheless, I admit that I may be partial to this title for reasons that are personal. Perhaps you've never had the experience of reading an outdated translation, or, in a similar vein, mishearing a song lyric, and then reading a more accurate translation, or the real lyric of a song, and feeling disappointed. The fact is, when I watched this movie several times before knowing the real title, I always thought it was a particularly effective title. I was just sharing my love of this title, however misguided. I'm sorry if it reveals a complete misunderstanding of DeSica and neorealism.
jon wrote:I don't think it is surprising. It is a commonly known misnomer. Criterion would be torn up on the if they used The Bicycle Thief over Bicycle Thieves.
I don't think they'd take any shit. They in the past stuck with the translated status quo for CHILDREN OF PARADISE (S/B ... of the "gods" i e the supercheap seats in a theater way up where the oxygen is thin, the whole idea of this being a charming cartoon about the scum of the street/poverty flies over many folk's head because of that), as well as THE GRAND ILLUSION (makes it sound like some kind of majesterial mysterious something, whereas it very simply means "The Big Lie").
montgomery wrote:Nevertheless, I admit that I may be partial to this title for reasons that are personal. Perhaps you've never had the experience of reading an outdated translation, or, in a similar vein, mishearing a song lyric, and then reading a more accurate translation, or the real lyric of a song, and feeling disappointed.
Excuse me while I kiss this guy. Actually, I was always disappointed that Aretha Franklin didn't actually expect to receive a porpoise when she got home.
Actually, I just saw this movie for the very first time last week and of course I totally loved it.
I was wondering and hoping that Criterion would be doing a release and when I saw the announcement my day was made
The artwork is brilliant, the extra`s sound great. Although I gotta agree that I`m a bit dissapointed with the fact that there isn`t (yet??) an audio commentary and some type of booklet announced. Hope that this will come soon
I`m so much looking forward to this release, february can`t come soon enough.
Criterion: =D> =D> =D>
When this played in a theater a few years ago I went three times. The Image release is so disappointing--you can't even make out what is happenning in the last shot unless you already know. I'll be shelling out for this one.
montgomery wrote:Nevertheless, I admit that I may be partial to this title for reasons that are personal. Perhaps you've never had the experience of reading an outdated translation, or, in a similar vein, mishearing a song lyric, and then reading a more accurate translation, or the real lyric of a song, and feeling disappointed. The fact is, when I watched this movie several times before knowing the real title, I always thought it was a particularly effective title. I was just sharing my love of this title, however misguided. I'm sorry if it reveals a complete misunderstanding of DeSica and neorealism.
I understand your position and I may have been overzealous, it just irritates me when people aren't more forthcoming with their meaning. I'm an art major and I have to hear a lot of: "Why do you like it?, student: "I don't know... I just do". Sends me up the walls.
montgomery wrote: The fact is, when I watched this movie several times before knowing the real title, I always thought it was a particularly effective title. I was just sharing my love of this title, however misguided. I'm sorry if it reveals a complete misunderstanding of DeSica and neorealism.
I wouldn't feel too bad. So much of appreciating art outside of one's culture is necessarily tied up in dealing with inaccurate or flawed translations. Many of my German-speaking friends snort when I claim to have read Goethe, when they insist what I've really done is read some Englishman's interpretation of Goethe. Ladri di biciclette certainly isn't the only feature film to have a mangled title imprinted in the minds of filmgoers. I've always felt the A bout de souffle / Out of Breath / Breathless controversy to be far more intrusive than Bicycle Thieves / The Bicycle Thief. Or Fassbinder's Fear Eat Soul / Ali: Fear Eats the Soul, which totally breaks down the mangled German of the title. Perhaps the worst example is Werner Herzog's Enigma of Kaspar Hauser, a totally banal replacement for the original brilliant Every Man For Himself and God Against All.
In the end, I guess I feel the title is one of the least interesting aspects of a good film. I'm reminded of a story a favorite English professor told us when a student continually handed in fiction assignments headed "Untitled." He suggested one should never be so lazy (or pretentious) as to pretend one's work of art was so profound it existed beyond the realms of language, and related the story of a frustrated writer who claimed to be unable to come up with a name for his book. A friend asked if there were any drums or trumpets in the book. "No," the author said. "Well then, call it No Drums, No Trumpets."
Here are a few more US titles with their more accurate translations in parenthesis:
Fat Girl (For My Sister)
Love Me if you Dare (Child's Play)
Look at Me (Like a Picture)
For the record, I prefer "The Bicycle Thief," and that's really what it's known as over here, even if it wasn't the most accurate translation. I've never referred to it as "Bicycle Thieves," personally. Although I really don't mind their ultimate decision, I feel Criterion should've put "Ladri di biciclette" on the cover.
Of course, Criterion also distribute Man Bites Dog, which is one of the best examples I can think of whereby an English title completely eclipses the quite different original (C'est arrivé près de chez vous translates as It Happened Near You, and apparently contains an in-joke that only Belgians will pick up).
It's an inspired change, as Man Bites Dog encapsulates three of the film's key elements (unexpected violence, tabloid sensationalism, black comedy) in just three words.
MichaelB wrote:Of course, Criterion also distribute Man Bites Dog, which is one of the best examples I can think of whereby an English title completely eclipses the quite different original (C'est arrivé près de chez vous translates as It Happened Near You, and apparently contains an in-joke that only Belgians will pick up).
It's an inspired change, as Man Bites Dog encapsulates three of the film's key elements (unexpected violence, tabloid sensationalism, black comedy) in just three words.
I think another translation of Man Bites Dog was "It Happened in your Neighborhood", which is a pretty good sub-headline for Man Bites Dog, and similar to "It happened near you"
In the end, I guess I feel the title is one of the least interesting aspects of a good film. I'm reminded of a story a favorite English professor told us when a student continually handed in fiction assignments headed "Untitled." He suggested one should never be so lazy (or pretentious) as to pretend one's work of art was so profound it existed beyond the realms of language, and related the story of a frustrated writer who claimed to be unable to come up with a name for his book. A friend asked if there were any drums or trumpets in the book. "No," the author said. "Well then, call it No Drums, No Trumpets."
This is also what someone tells Antoine Doinel in either Love On The Run or Stolen Kisses when he can't determine a title for his novel!
I thought I was a purist when it came to translations, but I'm not too bothered by changes that are made for obvious commercial reasons like Fear Eats the Soul, even though I think Every Man for Himself and God Against All is a great title for a movie (makes you sit bolt upright) and calling Fucking Amal Show Me Love is simply gutless. As a title, Show Me Love radiates tedium: it announces, "life's too short to waste your time on me!"
What particularly annoys me about Ladri di biciclette is simply that the change is so arbitrary and meaningless - it's a mistranslation rather than a retitling, and it serves no purpose.
scotty wrote:When this played in a theater a few years ago I went three times. The Image release is so disappointing--you can't even make out what is happenning in the last shot unless you already know. I'll be shelling out for this one.
???
I've had the Image release for years and though I'm not going to compare it with what's surely to come from CC (though breath is held, PANDORA being interlaced), I never had a problem making out anything in the last shot.
The last shot is simply of him and his boy walking into a mass of people (dont worry, no spoilers here), basically saying "and this is simply one of a thousand similar stories".
