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Lost Highway wrote:

knives wrote:Seconds is too, but for a different sort of minority. Looking at its authors without question Hudson was reflecting something of his sexuality and Frankenheimer his Judaism, particularly pointed at the last scene.

That isn't the text of the film, that is you speculating about two famous people's minority status.

Which is a perfectly valid form of reading a film

domino harvey wrote:

Lost Highway wrote:

knives wrote:Seconds is too, but for a different sort of minority. Looking at its authors without question Hudson was reflecting something of his sexuality and Frankenheimer his Judaism, particularly pointed at the last scene.

That isn't the text of the film, that is you speculating about two famous people's minority status.

Which is a perfectly valid form of reading a film

I prefer to call it dime-store psychologising.

Lost Highway wrote:

knives wrote:Seconds is too, but for a different sort of minority. Looking at its authors without question Hudson was reflecting something of his sexuality and Frankenheimer his Judaism, particularly pointed at the last scene.

That isn't the text of the film, that is you speculating about two famous people's minority status.

It definitely is part of the text (and subtext) of the film and has famously been part of nearly every reading of the film since it has come out. Ignoring, at the very least, it as a gay text is like refusing to acknowledge Pickpocket as one.

I hope Seconds wins Best Picture

Better than what actually won.

Criterion can't make up their mind, that's why they released both!

knives wrote:

Lost Highway wrote:

knives wrote:Seconds is too, but for a different sort of minority. Looking at its authors without question Hudson was reflecting something of his sexuality and Frankenheimer his Judaism, particularly pointed at the last scene.

That isn't the text of the film, that is you speculating about two famous people's minority status.

It definitely is part of the text (and subtext) of the film and has famously been part of nearly every reading of the film since it has come out. Ignoring, at the very least, it as a gay text is like refusing to acknowledge Pickpocket as one.

I'm well aware of that reading but I reject such ham-fisted on-the-nose interpretations based on speculation how a closeted, gay movie star must have felt about himself. It's a stereotyped generalisation which I find fairly offensive. Maybe Rock Hudson's feelings about his sexuality were more nuanced than revulsion.

I wasn't only referring to Hudson in my post and in his commentary, if I recall, Frankenheimer says as much for himself.

Where did knives say it was a product of revulsion? Living a lie and pretending to be someone you're not takes a toll

I didn't even see that. For sure I don't think Seconds has to do with revulsion and I don't recall seeing any reading with that as a primary premise. My take is on needing to become part of the crowd even as something you are born with and identify with fully make you outside that.

Reading through the responses from the last couple pages, it's interesting that Ribs would choose A Soldier's Story as an example of a forgotten Best Picture film, as intentional or not that's easily the best race-centered film to ever be nominated and deserves a cultural relevancy it is for whatever reason denied presently. That movie has so much to say about the differing black experiences within the larger concept of racial divide and is as relevant as ever. I'd certainly heartily recommend it to the Get Out boosters if they haven't seen it yet

knives wrote:I didn't even see that. For sure I don't think Seconds has to do with revulsion and I don't recall seeing any reading with that as a primary premise. My take is on needing to become part of the crowd even as something you are born with and identify with fully make you outside that.

The character at the start is part of the status quo who simply got tired of his life and his wife and yearns to be young again. He isn't marginalised, he has first world problems. Even if you interpret his Rock Hudson incarnation as "living a lie" this still doesn't quite line up as a specifically gay or Jewish allegory in regards of the plot of Seconds.

If you frame it as Seconds being a film about alienation then I buy that. That can encompass being gay or Jewish but its non-specific. If you tie it down to it specifically being a film about what it means to be gay or Jewish then that becomes problematic in several ways. If Frankenheimer said that's why he related to the subject matter and that is the subtext then I buy that. I don't buy it as it being the specific text. Seconds is vague and very generalised and it leaves itself wide open to different interpretations. The Stepford Wives and Get Out don't. They are about very particular issues of oppression, there is little room for interpretation.

Oh, okay. That's fair.

domino harvey wrote:Reading through the responses from the last couple pages, it's interesting that Ribs would choose A Soldier's Story as an example of a forgotten Best Picture film, as intentional or not that's easily the best race-centered film to ever be nominated and deserves a cultural relevancy it is for whatever reason denied presently. That movie has so much to say about the differing black experiences within the larger concept of racial divide and is as relevant as ever. I'd certainly heartily recommend it to the Get Out boosters if they haven't seen it yet

Ditto. It might be in my top ten nominees.

PGA noms:

the Big Sick
Call Me by Your Name
Dunkirk
Get Out
I, Tonya
Lady Bird
Molly's Game
the Post
the Shape of Water
the Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri
Wonder Woman

Wouldn't be shocked if that is the BP if you take out I, Tonya and Wonder Woman.

I think I, Tonya has a better chance than Molly's Game or the Big Sick

Whoa, just realized no Darkest Hour

domino harvey wrote:I think I, Tonya has a better chance than Molly's Game or the Big Sick

Actually, given that I, Tonya has now nabbed PGA, WGA, ACE, and GG noms, it may be more of a lock than anyone realized

Yeah, the complete abandonment of Darkest Hour as the raves out of TIFF have subsided to mildly positive reception has me seriously questioning whether or not Oldman for Actor has the narrative we've been told he has locked down.

That Mudbound didn't take any of these other slots is also pretty surprising, but good per my previous feelings about Netflix at the Oscars.

Wait - that's 11 nominees! Isn't a tie in a preferential balloting system supposed to be mathematically implausible?

domino harvey wrote:

domino harvey wrote:I think I, Tonya has a better chance than Molly's Game or the Big Sick

Actually, given that I, Tonya has now nabbed PGA, WGA, ACE, and GG noms, it may be more of a lock than anyone realized

That's a pretty convincing argument. That would definitely be an interesting sign of the times when deliberate kitsch ranks ahead of Sorkin.

To be fair, Molly's Game is overperforming too, and the adapted screenplay category really only has Call Me By Your Name as fair competition for Sorkin winning... but then again, everyone thought Sorkin would win for a film he didn't even end up nominated for, so

National Society of Film Critics


Best Film: Lady Bird
Best Director: Greta Gerwig(Lady Bird)
Best Actor: Daniel Kaluuya(Get Out)
Best Actress: Sally Hawkings(Shape of Water, Maudie)
Best Supporting Actor: WIlliam Dafoe(The Florida Project)
Best Supporting Actress: Laurie Metcalf(Lady Bird)
Best Screenplay: Greta Gerwig(Lady Bird)
Best Cinematography: Roger Deakins(Blade Runner 2049)

As someone who hasn't been following every step, why has Phantom Thread been completely shunned except for a Best Actor nomination?
And I'm heart broken to not see The Florida Project getting any love. Easily one of the year's best

dda1996a wrote:As someone who hasn't been following every step, why has Phantom Thread been completely shunned except for a Best Actor nomination?
And I'm heart broken to not see The Florida Project getting any love. Easily one of the year's best

Phantom Thread was one of the last major films to screen, so that limited its strength in the early critic’s groups awards, though PTA’s films almost always underperform anyway. As for The Florida Project, it seems like a perfect example of the type of film that is well-liked but isn’t viewed as competitive in most categories or for Best Picture, and so is designated as a sure winner in one lesser category (in this case, best supporting actor) to make up for coming up short elsewhere.