Criterion's Failure to Communicate

[kekid]

Criterion management likes to control information communicated to its customers. As a result, we do not know their plans beyond next 3 months. In practice this has cost me a fortune. I would not have bought many DVD's from other manufacturers if I knew Criterion had firm plans to release them.

This practice is of questionable value. Certainly other companies (Eureka MoC and Second Run, for example) are far more candid about their plans. There is little evidence this has done them any harm. If anything, their customers appreciate their openness.

We see the consequences of this policy all over this forum, where various people wonder if they should buy this or that DVD from another manufacturer, not knowing if Criterion would make them redundant in not too distant future. Someone at Criterion knows the answer to these questions, but would not reveal them. While the benefit of this policy to Criterion is questionable, the waste it creates for its customers is beyond dispute.

Why do they do this? Can we convince them to reconsider this and publish a rolling one-year out plan? Certainly we can accept some uncertainty in its execution, but it will be far better than the severly limited communication they make now. This would give substance to their monthly communications, which I for one find of little interest currently.

[Antoine Doinel]

They announce their titles 3-months in advance which is pretty much the general rule of thumb for most major studios. If you read this forum, the members are fairly good at tracking down and making fairly accurate guesses at future titles that are coming even further down the line.

I'm not sure how many versions of Seduced & Abandoned or Kicking & Screaming you purchased to make you frustrated, but surely you jest.

[Cinephrenic]

From Criterion's FAQ:
http://www.criterion.com/asp/faq.asp

Why doesn't Criterion announce upcoming titles further in advance?

We announce upcoming DVD titles in the Coming Soon section of the website. Titles are usually announced three months prior to their release. We refrain from announcing upcoming DVDs further down the line because our release schedule is very much subject to change. We do not wish to mislead customers by announcing an upcoming release only to delay or cancel said release. By announcing only those releases on the immediate horizon, we can be confident not only of when they will be released, but can also provide fairly complete details of the disc's contents.

[kekid]

They announce their titles 3-months in advance which is pretty much the general rule of thumb for most major studios. If you read this forum, the members are fairly good at tracking down and making fairly accurate guesses at future titles that are coming even further down the line.

I'm not sure how many versions of Seduced & Abandoned or Kicking & Screaming you purchased to make you frustrated, but surely you jest.

I get a catalog from Kino that covers a far longer vision of what they plan to do. I am quite forgiving if some of the announcements do not materialize. I have mentioned other examples in my original posting. I cannot dispute that many companies do what Criterion does. That does not make it customer-friendly.

I do not agree that "the members on this forum are fairly good at tracking down and making fairly accurate guesses at future titles.." You might reach that conclusion if you only focus on what Criterion issues that was mentioned on the forum. But when you also consider a plethora of films forum members have predicted but not materialized, and equally large number that showed up that no-one predicted, you would question the claim made here.

I do not have "seduced and abandoned", nor "Kicking and screaming" from anyone else and, for that matter, do not intend to get them from Criterion. But I can produce a long list of items they issued within one year of my purchasing them from someone else.

[DDillaman]

I am quite forgiving if some of the announcements do not materialize.

You are not the average Criterion customer, in my experience.

I'm also the person who sold my WOMAN IN THE DUNES and LAST YEAR IN MARIENBAD DVDs in 2003 because there was well-founded rumor that they were coming out on Criterion "soon". whoops ... I'd much rather wait til they have them locked into place and then announce the titles.

[kekid]

I am quite forgiving if some of the announcements do not materialize.

You are not the average Criterion customer, in my experience.

I'm also the person who sold my WOMAN IN THE DUNES and LAST YEAR IN MARIENBAD DVDs in 2003 because there was well-founded rumor that they were coming out on Criterion "soon". whoops ... I'd much rather wait til they have them locked into place and then announce the titles.

Anyone who shops for DVD's across regions is perhaps not "the average Criterion customer", so I plead guilty as charged. By the same criterion(!) many members on this forum could be characterized non-mainstream.

I never sell items I own based on rumors (particularly discontinued and rare items). However, if the information came directly from Criterion, through formal communications (such as their monthly newsletters), I would not buy from other regions DVD's included in their future plans.

It is quite easy to announce annual plans, along with short-term firm commitments. Then different customers can use the information as they see fit.

I have observed that any suggestion for Criterion to do things differently is often interpreted as "complaining", "bitching", etc. This is unfortunate. One should be able to express these views as constructive suggestions, which not everyone is expected to agree with.

[blindside8zao]

you should at least change the name of the thread, it would be the fastest way to tone down on the silliness.

[Derek Estes]

When you purchase cross region discs you are taking the chance that you will double dip, or will need to be satisfied with the disc you chose to purchase, and it is no one elses responsibility to make sure you spend your money wisely. Besides I don't know if you are familiar with the way people shit their pants every time an announced title is postponed by even a couple months. I can only imagine all of the bitching Criterion hears when situations like that arise.

[kekid]

you should at least change the name of the thread, it would be the fastest way to tone down on the silliness.

Thank you. I would be happy to do that. I could not figure out how to edit the name of the thread. Please give a hint, or the moderator may make the change. ("Criterion Communications" might serve the purpose better.)

[The Invunche]

I have observed that any suggestion for Criterion to do things differently is often interpreted as "complaining", "bitching", etc. This is unfortunate. One should be able to express these views as constructive suggestions, which not everyone is expected to agree with.

Unfurtunate yes, but in your case it sure sounds like bitching.

In practice this has cost me a fortune.

How about some numbers?

But I can produce a long list of items they issued within one year of my purchasing them from someone else.

Please do.

[Matt]

They could be like Apple, who don't announce new products until they're actually available for purchase. 3-4 months lead time plus the occasional official hint should be more than adequate for most people.

[backstreetsbackalright]

If you're losing "a fortune" on double-dips alone, you're clearly spending too much money on DVDs.

[kekid]

I have observed that any suggestion for Criterion to do things differently is often interpreted as "complaining", "bitching", etc. This is unfortunate. One should be able to express these views as constructive suggestions, which not everyone is expected to agree with.

Unfurtunate yes, but in your case it sure sounds like bitching.

In practice this has cost me a fortune.

How about some numbers?

But I can produce a long list of items they issued within one year of my purchasing them from someone else.

Please do.

All I have suggested is that Criterion communicate longer term (e.g. one year out) plans. They may continue to specify items that are firm, so individual customers may make their own decisions. I do not understand why this sounds like "bitching".

I think we can debate the issue without getting personal. However, in the spirit of questions being asked above, I would give example of Ozu releases that are trickling in (if Criterion were to simply say we intend to issue the following Ozus, interested customers could avoid buying those from alternate sources), Bressons (Pickpocket, Au Hasard), Viscontis (White Nights, The Leopard). These are just a few examples.

I accept the argument that cross-region shoppers must accept some risks of double-dipping. I am merely suggesting a relatively simple approach to avoid the avoidable duplications. It would take no more than a section in their newsletters, with appropriate qualifications.

I am frankly rather surprised by the extent of opposition to the suggestion. I do not see the downside of Criterion doing this. In any case, others are entitled to their views as I am to mine. I have said my piece, and will let this rest.

[The Invunche]

Not trying to get personal, I just don't buy your initial post about how Criterion's policy has cost you a "fortune". I bet you're exaggerating the problem.

However, in the spirit of questions being asked above, I would give example of Ozu releases that are trickling in (if Criterion were to simply say we intend to issue the following Ozus, interested customers could avoid buying those from alternate sources), Bressons (Pickpocket, Au Hasard), Viscontis (White Nights, The Leopard). These are just a few examples.

"interested customers"? From the post it doesn't even sound like those examples apply to you.

[backstreetsbackalright]

To give just my own personal take on your suggestions, sure, I'm all for it. However, Criterion have chosen not to do this. In fact, they've proven time and again to be fairly guarded with their future plans. I don't feel that it's really worth a whole lot of effort to try and convince them to change this pattern, and I feel that discussing it in a forum with other enthusiasts is fine and maybe even appropriate, but not especially useful.

As far as why you're getting a lot of opposition, I would suggest that your anxiety is something that a lot of us on this forum have gone through ourselves. I know I have. That means we should probably be more sympathetic to what you're saying, but it also means that a lot of us have also seen this kind of plea many many many times before. And we've seen it boil over pretty quickly into chest-beating claims of consumer entitlement, which is just plain silly. I think we'd all love to see your hopes answered, but we're pretty much over hearing about this same hope month after month from one poster or another.

Bottom line,

Can we convince them to reconsider this and publish a rolling one-year out plan?

I don't think a lot of us on this forum believe that we can, and after a while, many have found that we'd rather watch movies than wring hands over whether or not to buy a poorly subbed import of An Autumn Afternoon.

[HerrSchreck]

I can kind of relate to this dude's beef, though CC's concerns are a bit different from the bulk of the other "major" studios he compares them to. For example, it's helpful when Warner signals far in advance that they'll be releasing particular titles (i e Sjostroms, Chaney's, any number of noirs/etc,) way way in advance like on the HTF chats. This saves me the waste of purchasing these gems from some R2 collector-label, etc, with second string elements. But at the same time, a vault-driven Major Studio is not the same as a rights-driven distributor; WB knows that CITY STREETS or THE WIND is not going to get up and walk away on them, and that after they announce their intentions, all that remains is for them to get up offa their lazy asses & transfer the elements that have been in their possession and always will be in their posession. Plus they have in house telecine, restoration, manufacturing, etc, allowing them to do what they want at leisure.

CC on the other hand, can lose rights, have grotty elements be delivered leaving them inna uncomfortable bind, have deals fall thru at the last minute for any number of unsightly reasons, etc, and generally be laughed at a la VAMPYR, EISENSTEIN, PABST, etc, after making formal announcements.

That said, I do agree that CC sometimes get carried away with the Seriousness-Secrecy angle, with this sense reflected in the way some sort-of-kind-of-ex-or-current-employees are seemingly petrified of letting slip that they're working on this or that film, even when the deal is in the bag and the release is guaranteed. These are pieces of Entertainment, and not The Manhattan Project, the Coke Recipe, a cure for cancer, nor a space shuttle launch.

[Gigi M.]

I think Kekid has a good point. We can understand that Criterion might loose the rights or cause some problems if the announce the films they're dealing with some major studios (Brazil in the laser year era). But, why the hell they can't announce the titles that belong to the Janus library. Like the Ozus, Mizoguchis, etc. They could at lease inform their customers about the titles they know they're leasing for sure.

[tryavna]

To give just my own personal take on your suggestions, sure, I'm all for it. However, Criterion have chosen not to do this. In fact, they've proven time and again to be fairly guarded with their future plans. I don't feel that it's really worth a whole lot of effort to try and convince them to change this pattern, and I feel that discussing it in a forum with other enthusiasts is fine and maybe even appropriate, but not especially useful.

Bingo! I, too, sympathize with Kekid, but I don't envision Criterion changing their behavior in this regard any time soon. So these sorts of complaints are basically irrelevant.

CC's concerns are a bit different from the bulk of the other "major" studios he compares them to. ... a vault-driven Major Studio is not the same as a rights-driven distributor; WB knows that CITY STREETS or THE WIND is not going to get up and walk away on them, and that after they announce their intentions, all that remains is for them to get up offa their lazy asses & transfer the elements that have been in their possession and always will be in their posession. Plus they have in house telecine, restoration, manufacturing, etc, allowing them to do what they want at leisure.

CC on the other hand, can lose rights, have grotty elements be delivered leaving them inna uncomfortable bind, have deals fall thru at the last minute for any number of unsightly reasons, etc

Double bingo!! The reason for Criterion's behavior is very different from other distributors that can more or less count on retaining the rights to various films indefinitely.

At the same time, because of the Janus-Criterion connection, it would be nice to know which Janus titles are being worked on at any given time. The only thing we can ever really rely on, however, is that sometimes one of our e-mails to Mulvaney/Lipson gets lucky and receives a specific response.

[godardslave]

actually, it seems responses from Lipson are slightly more detailed and open that Mulvaney's were.

[kinjitsu]

At the same time, because of the Janus-Criterion connection, it would be nice to know which Janus titles are being worked on at any given time. The only thing we can ever really rely on, however, is that sometimes one of our e-mails to Mulvaney/Lipson gets lucky and receives a specific response.

Or the theatrical screening of Janus titles in new prints, but that doesn't necessarily guarantee that we'll see any of them any time soon.

[HerrSchreck]

That's a hollow weather vane, once excitedly used by some, but long since discounted as an indicator of likelihood (PHANTOM CHARIOT, the Pabsts, and so much more seen on tv & in the cinema) of Janus-to-Criterion (or even HVe) dvd's.

[kinjitsu]

That's a hollow weather vane, once excitedly used by some, but long since discounted as an indicator of likelihood (PHANTOM CHARIOT, the Pabsts, and so much more seen on tv & in the cinema) of Janus-to-Criterion (or even HVe) dvd's.

Which is precisely why I said it doesn't guarantee that we'll see any of them them any time soon.

[backstreetsbackalright]

That's a hollow weather vane, once excitedly used by some, but long since discounted as an indicator of likelihood (PHANTOM CHARIOT, the Pabsts, and so much more seen on tv & in the cinema) of Janus-to-Criterion (or even HVe) dvd's.

It's not concrete, but "a hollow weather vane" seems to be overstating things. By my count, films previously spotted with Janus/CC intros on TV or in theaters have made for eight DVD additions to the CC already this year.

[HerrSchreck]

Feel free to use it as a predictor. Nonetheless you must know how many Janus logos appear all over the world on TV and in theatres and haven't made it onto CC editions, so why pretend? We've all been thru this so many times on so many individual titles I thought the lapsed hopes would have mooted this very conversation. The ratio of Janus-without-CC-edition vs Janus-with-CC-edition must be at LEAST hundreds to one. Saying CC DVD's are of films that were previously exhibited with Janus logo's is meaningless...the vast bulk of them will have been. They're sister companies.

And anyhow, that's not what this thread is about. You're perfectly entitled to feel a variable amount of encouragement that a Janus logo is going to get you a CC dvd... I've given up on that long ago.

[Brian Oblivious]

I can't help but think that these theatrical releases have some connection to the secrecy, however. Say (hypothetically) Criterion is currently planning on releasing DVDs of the Fallen Idol and Fanfan la Tulipe in March of 2007. If they were to let Netflix put a page up for the titles now, you can bet that Rialto's theatrical rental proceeds would immediately drop.

Even a fairly hardcore cinema guy like me who practically never buys DVDs and sees more Janus logos on 35mm prints than on his television set in a given year uses the hanging threat of a possible DVD release help guide his theatre-going decisions. Like when I was attending the Naruse series in Berkeley early this year, I knew I couldn't fit every single film into my schedule. If Janus was thanked in the program note the film (Repast or Scattered Clouds, for example) felt slightly more skippable than those that didn't have a Janus credit (Traveling Actors, Her Lonely Lane, etc.)

I'm probably something of an extreme case, but I think the principle applies. I'm actually glad Criterion doesn't announce titles that far in advance; I prefer the guessing game to the thought that theatrical screenings of these films might soon become financially unviable.